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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:23 pm 
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LOL


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:15 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Holy ****. I find this view extremely intolerable.


I don't really care. I find a lot of the views here intolerable.


Totally untrue. Totally...

You find them minimally tolerable because you haven't left, nor have you started offing us...

Or have you...

Bery...

Monte...

:P

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:58 am 
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Rynar wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Holy ****. I find this view extremely intolerable.


I don't really care. I find a lot of the views here intolerable.


Totally untrue. Totally...

You find them minimally tolerable because you haven't left, nor have you started offing us...

Or have you...

Bery...

Monte...

:P


Let's not quibble over exact degrees of tolerability.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:30 pm 
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I think he's implying that you murdered them.

As a joke, of course.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:40 pm 
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You notice that Diamondeye neither confirmed nor denied . . .

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:47 pm 
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Well...Monty I can certainly see. I don't recall much interaction between DE and Bery, though.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:51 pm 
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Raltar wrote:
Well...Monty I can certainly see. I don't recall much interaction between DE and Bery, though.


It's always the person you least suspect.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:06 am 
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Raltar wrote:
Well...Monty I can certainly see. I don't recall much interaction between DE and Bery, though.


You missed a few humdingers.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:10 am 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Funny - post in a gun forum by a former leo defending the forums critique of a specific incident against an LEO saying that most cops are good cops:

"I was in law enforcement. Wore a bright shiny silver badge, niffy cool handcuffs, and two guns. What I learned in those SEVEN (7) years is this. To be a good cop is a falsehood. There are no good cops. There are only those who are less likely to be criminally minded and abusive. The only people I saw who make it in Law Enforcement are the worst backstabbing, lying, dirty, rotten scum our society has. I learned not to fear the criminal but to fear those whom I worked with. Hiding/shredding reports, planting evidence, beating those who couldn't even defend themselves, stomping the **** out of those who couldn't afford a speaking voice, controlling the illegal drug trade, and putting men in prison whom they didn't like or feared.

Thats what I learned in 7 years. Good, honest, decent, hard working people can't make it in law enforcement as a career because they are not corrupt enough. Plain and Simple!

Cops? I was one and I wouldn't trust a cop to feed my hogs slop.

CL"


That is the biggest pile of steaming **** I've ever seen posted here. And that's saying something.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:06 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Funny - post in a gun forum by a former leo defending the forums critique of a specific incident against an LEO saying that most cops are good cops:

"I was in law enforcement. Wore a bright shiny silver badge, niffy cool handcuffs, and two guns. What I learned in those SEVEN (7) years is this. To be a good cop is a falsehood. There are no good cops. There are only those who are less likely to be criminally minded and abusive. The only people I saw who make it in Law Enforcement are the worst backstabbing, lying, dirty, rotten scum our society has. I learned not to fear the criminal but to fear those whom I worked with. Hiding/shredding reports, planting evidence, beating those who couldn't even defend themselves, stomping the **** out of those who couldn't afford a speaking voice, controlling the illegal drug trade, and putting men in prison whom they didn't like or feared.

Thats what I learned in 7 years. Good, honest, decent, hard working people can't make it in law enforcement as a career because they are not corrupt enough. Plain and Simple!

Cops? I was one and I wouldn't trust a cop to feed my hogs slop.

CL"


That is the biggest pile of steaming **** I've ever seen posted here. And that's saying something.


...I have to agree.

With Aizle, not Elmarnieh.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:11 pm 
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Raltar wrote:
Aizle wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Funny - post in a gun forum by a former leo defending the forums critique of a specific incident against an LEO saying that most cops are good cops:

"I was in law enforcement. Wore a bright shiny silver badge, niffy cool handcuffs, and two guns. What I learned in those SEVEN (7) years is this. To be a good cop is a falsehood. There are no good cops. There are only those who are less likely to be criminally minded and abusive. The only people I saw who make it in Law Enforcement are the worst backstabbing, lying, dirty, rotten scum our society has. I learned not to fear the criminal but to fear those whom I worked with. Hiding/shredding reports, planting evidence, beating those who couldn't even defend themselves, stomping the **** out of those who couldn't afford a speaking voice, controlling the illegal drug trade, and putting men in prison whom they didn't like or feared.

Thats what I learned in 7 years. Good, honest, decent, hard working people can't make it in law enforcement as a career because they are not corrupt enough. Plain and Simple!

Cops? I was one and I wouldn't trust a cop to feed my hogs slop.

CL"


That is the biggest pile of steaming **** I've ever seen posted here. And that's saying something.


...I have to agree.

With Aizle, not Elmarnieh.


I have a family friend who is a former police officer who says the same exact thing. He was ostricized because he wouldn't lie for his fellow officers, and wound up leaving the force over it. I'm sure this isn't true of all municipalities, but I'm equally sure that there are some forces that have a culture of corruption.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:32 pm 
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There are some that have a culture of corruption - most notably the New Orleans P.D. and the Chicago P.D. among very prominent organizations. They also happen to be in cities and states that have a culture of corruption.

As for Elmo, he just went out and found one guy on the internet that says what he wants to hear, which is pretty typical for him. Anyone can be a cop on the internet, and it's pretty easy to just post your own disgruntled bullshit when you know no one else can present their side of the story. I'm very suspicious of anyone who claims they were the sole example of honesty and ethical conduct in any organization, law enforcement or otherwise, especially when they pat themselves on the back that hard. It sounds to me more like someone who tried to get ahead by making his fellow officers look bad and was ostracized for it.

I've seen people ostracized before - or rather threatened with it, but not to lie for their fellow officers, to lie against them. It's not uncommon for supervisors to tell patrolmen or deputies "say what we want about this guy. We want him gone. You play ball, and you're cool; you don't, and we'll make sure you regret it."

Nonspecific claims of being "unwilling to lie for fellow officers" mean nothing. People always like to relate things in the light that looks best for them. If we could really look into these claims, I think we'd find these anti-cop former cops were not as superior as they like to pretend.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:12 pm 
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Seems like we've had the same arguments about cops over and over and over and over...how come we don't ever change it up a bit and rag on lawyers for a few months?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:27 pm 
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LadyKate wrote:
Seems like we've had the same arguments about cops over and over and over and over...how come we don't ever change it up a bit and rag on lawyers for a few months?


Because we can't argue about that. We all agree that lawyers are **** unethical **** stains. ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:34 pm 
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LOL!!! :D

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:41 pm 
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Yes DE - reading a forum one reads 5 times a week and seeing that post is "going out and looking for".

Moron.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:15 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
There are some that have a culture of corruption - most notably the New Orleans P.D. and the Chicago P.D. among very prominent organizations. They also happen to be in cities and states that have a culture of corruption.
Yeah, Baltimore is another really good example.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:40 am 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Yes DE - reading a forum one reads 5 times a week and seeing that post is "going out and looking for".

Moron.


I think it may apply. Something tells me that somewhere on that board, or probably in that thread, there was a story or post defending the police. But that's not what you posted. It caught your attention because you're looking for it.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:38 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Yes DE - reading a forum one reads 5 times a week and seeing that post is "going out and looking for".

Moron.


I think it may apply. Something tells me that somewhere on that board, or probably in that thread, there was a story or post defending the police. But that's not what you posted. It caught your attention because you're looking for it.


There were a few, there were many more condemning but this one stuck out to me because it mentioned real life experiences from that side of the screen.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:15 pm 
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Timmit wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
There are some that have a culture of corruption - most notably the New Orleans P.D. and the Chicago P.D. among very prominent organizations. They also happen to be in cities and states that have a culture of corruption.
Yeah, Baltimore is another really good example.


...and L.A., Oakland and N.Y...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:41 pm 
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Vindicarre wrote:
Timmit wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
There are some that have a culture of corruption - most notably the New Orleans P.D. and the Chicago P.D. among very prominent organizations. They also happen to be in cities and states that have a culture of corruption.
Yeah, Baltimore is another really good example.


...and L.A., Oakland and N.Y...


L.A. does not have a significant reputation for corruption. Oakland I don't know about. NYPD is so big it makes more sense to look at individual precincts because there's historically been significant variation in their character (The same might also apply to LA, and probably would apply to Chicago if the city and Illinois in general didn't essentially regard corruption as a way of life for everyone). There was one precinct in particular, I want to say the 71st but I might be remembering wrong, that was a serious problem not long ago, but other precincts were completely different.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:20 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
Timmit wrote:
There are some that have a culture of corruption - most notably the New Orleans P.D. and the Chicago P.D. among very prominent organizations. They also happen to be in cities and states that have a culture of corruption.
Yeah, Baltimore is another really good example.


...and L.A., Oakland and N.Y...


Diamondeye wrote:
L.A. does not have a significant reputation for corruption.


I disagree - Rampart, Christopher Commission, L.A. Riots. When the Police Chief is alleged to have been involved in large-scale cover-ups of corruption, that speaks powerfully to the entire organization. When it's consistently associated with corruption and brutality in popular media, it shows how the dept's reputation is viewed by the public-at-large. When the city council votes to allow U.S. Department of Justice to oversee and monitor reforms within the LAPD, rather than handle it internally, it speaks for itself.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:16 pm 
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Vindicarre wrote:
I disagree - Rampart, Christopher Commission, L.A. Riots. When the Police Chief is alleged to have been involved in large-scale cover-ups of corruption, that speaks powerfully to the entire organization. When it's consistently associated with corruption and brutality in popular media, it shows how the dept's reputation is viewed by the public-at-large. When the city council votes to allow U.S. Department of Justice to oversee and monitor reforms within the LAPD, rather than handle it internally, it speaks for itself.


I don't believe that it does. This all stems from one incident, now 20 years old. That hardly provides a compelling case for the status now, or even 10 years ago. The LAPD may have had a problem with corruption at the time, but that does not say much about matters now, or even in recent years. The City Council's vote says little, as well, except that it speaks to the degree of national attention surrounding the entire series of events.

As to popular culture, that's highly problematic. Popular culture ideas about the LAPD stem almost entirely from the entire Rodney King series of events, and tend to ignore the behavior of those supposedly outraged over the incident and the corruption it alledgedly represented represented. Although there is good cause to believe that the LAPD suffered a serious internal discipline problem at that time, there is also good cause to believe it has been severely exaggerated, and that the popular culture image of the LAPD is heavily that of a black LA population that simply resents the police, as well as other races, as the heavy targeting of Latinos and Asians during the rioting attest. Part of the racial tension of the time was between Asians and Blacks, in incidents such as the Soon Da Ju shooting of Latasha Harlins, but popular culture tends to gloss over the issues almost entirely in favor of oversimplifying the entire matter down to white cops beating a black man.

In any case, this persistence of this image over 20 years represents a problem with popular culture in general these days: Images from any time since.. 1985, more or less, tend to remain "current" in popular imagining in ways that they did not back at those times. For example, people still tend to think of Desert Storm as a recent war, even though it, like the Rodney King incident is now 20 years in the past. In 1991, however, people did not think of Viet Nam in such terms of recency, even though it was approximately the same distance in the past at that time. 9/11 is 10 years old next month, but people seem to think of it as something that just happened (although the lengthy intervention in Afghanistan makes that rather understandable).

Even the Stanford sexual assault procedures thread hints at this problem: In the past 25-30 years enormous societal progress has been made in dealing with the issues faced by sexual assault victims. It is no longer socially acceptable to blame the victim, nor use the short skirt defense, and legal processes have reformed as well - witness rape shield laws. Yet we see idiocy like the Stanford sex code or whatever we're calling it because we are still hearing this mantra about how poorly rape victims are treated, how they are stigmatized and nother such nonsense - claims that were valid 25 or 30 years agao but no longer reflect reality. Instead, much like a claim that the LAPD is notoriously corrupt, it is based on an idea from decades ago, but which people have held onto out of nothing more than habit.

Not that I have any particular liking for the LAPD, but really one would think that more recent incidents could be cited if they had problems that even approached those of places like New Orleans or Chicago.

A

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:33 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
In any case, this persistence of this image over 20 years represents a problem with popular culture in general these days: Images from any time since.. 1985, more or less, tend to remain "current" in popular imagining in ways that they did not back at those times. For example, people still tend to think of Desert Storm as a recent war, even though it, like the Rodney King incident is now 20 years in the past. In 1991, however, people did not think of Viet Nam in such terms of recency, even though it was approximately the same distance in the past at that time. 9/11 is 10 years old next month, but people seem to think of it as something that just happened (although the lengthy intervention in Afghanistan makes that rather understandable).


Yeah, I find this phenomenon really interesting. On the one hand, our culture is evolving really quickly on major social issues (e.g. gay rights, racial and gender equality, etc.) and contemporary pop-culture seems to go even faster. On the other hand, though, the 80s seem much more current and relevant today than the 50s did in the 80s. My theory is that cable networks and the internet have kept older cultural material so readily accessible (Nick at Night, 24/7 History Channel documentaries, etc. on TV; virtually every classic TV show, movie or video game you could want available online; and so on) that these things never really get the chance to fade away.

That said, I think the foregoing mostly keeps things alive for those who experienced them in the first place. I've had some interesting conversations with my nieces and nephew (born in the early 90s) about things like Desert Storm or the Cold War, and they really do tend to see them as "history" rather than relevant factors in contemporary events.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:30 pm 
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DE you spoke of "significant reputation for corruption" the fact that the Rampart scandal is still in the public eye speaks
directly to that statement.

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This all stems from one incident, now 20 years old.

While Rodney King incident happened 20 years ago, the things I cited are ongoing. The issues I highlighted are the result of many actions taken by many, many officers. They are not one incident. The Rodney King deal (which I didn't even cite) is one thing; the LA Riots, the Rampart scandal, the findings of the Dept of Justice...are all additional "evidence" affecting the perception of the LAPD.

Indictments in the CRASH corruption scandal were still being handed down in the early 2000's.

The oversight by the U.S. Department of Justice began in 2000.

In 2003 a commission was convened by the L.A. Police Commission and the LA Police Chief to probe the after-effects of the whole Rampart deal. The report was released in 2006.

The most recent Mayoral election was directly influenced by the Rampart scandal.

Multiple officers settled civil rights cases against LA in 2009.

Lawsuits are still being filed.

Quote:
Not that I have any particular liking for the LAPD, but really one would think that more recent incidents could be cited if they had problems that even approached those of places like New Orleans or Chicago.

What incidents have been cited for Chicago and NO? What incidents in Chicago or NO are more recent than the National Lawyers Guild filing a class action suit against the LAPD for civil rights violations a couple of weeks ago?

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