The Glade 4.0

I don't think that's true, Xeq. See here:

You say that like it's a good thing. So it's okay to take half of someone's income and none of someone else's. That strikes you as fair?

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Everything is fair when your saving the chirrens..

Fairness is just rhetoric. What is "fair" to you or to me? I think fair is that we all pay the same regardless of income.

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

To clarify, the 50% figure is the marginal rate on the last dollar earned; not the percentage of total income paid to taxes. That said, I agree that the income tax has become too progressive. I think people at the high-end of the income spectrum can and should pay a bit more than they do now, but I also think taxes should go up on people in the lower and middle parts of the spectrum. I'm definitely on board with the idea that everyone should have skin in the game, and right now, our system doesn't do enough to connect the pain of taxes with the pleasure of spending for most voters.

*Edited to correct quote tags.

There's that liberal mantra again. More. Every year, every month, every day. More. Nothing specifice, no regard to how much the "rich" already pay...just more. Gotta keep that voting base on the goverenment tit!

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Quality post, NF. Really adds to the conversation.

No problem RD. Just call it like I see it.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Do you honestly believe that, though? I mean, snark and internet-debating aside (not that I don't enjoy those too!), do you really think that the average liberal (a) believes the amount "the rich" currently pay is irrelevant to the question of whether or not they should pay more; and (b) is driven by a desire to keep their voting base dependent on government assistance? Really and truly - is that what you think?

I do RD.

You haven't been to dkos lately or many other left leaning blogs.

It is literally "make the rich pay for being rich" repeated in different forms and with different levels of frothing anger but the message is the same.

Rich people should pay because they have more and they have more because they are evil and they are evil because they are rich.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Like with everything, do I think that is what every lib or dem thinks? No. Do I think most do? Yes. I've read way to much, seen to much debate and heard way to many people talk to not think that.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

I should point out that literally being "make the rich pay for being rich" would indicate those are the words being used, not some interpretation of whatever is the stated stance.

Carry on.

My understanding was we don't have a sliding rate tax in this country. that you paid the percentage of the first dollar that you do on the last. That's why people complain that raises and overtime just push them into a higher bracket. Or when you make a big commission check federal withholding thinks you're going to make that kind of money 52 weeks a year and withholds appropriately. Am I wrong?

Also people are telling me anecdotally that they are paying 50% or more in taxes/revenue. Are they lying to me?

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Only people subject to the Alternative Minimum Tax don't have a sliding tax rate in the United States.

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Alright. I misunderstood on that. My second question about anecdotal evidence stands then please. Another open question: If Federal spending is 15% of GDP, would a 15% flat no exception tax on every dollar earned (or better yet spent) balance the budget? Please bare with me I didn't get to take Econ in High school. All my electives went to vocational school.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Rorinthas:

The short answer is ... No. After all, we don't tax government expenditures.

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Good point, thanks. So we'd need more to start with. I"m sure there's a way to figure it out though.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Yes, I think it's fairly clear that the average liberal does not see any relationship between how much the rich pay and whether they should pay more. To the average liberal, there is always some wrong to be righted, and thus, the rich can always pay more - they're rich after all!

I've pointed out repeatedly how we always hear about the rich paying "their fair share", but never want to explain what a "fair share" would be or how much would be too much.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."