The Glade 4.0

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:28 pm 
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Thank you.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:41 am 
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I presume you've decided to go with a monk. Since you're fighting with a weapon, you're missing out on one of the main draws of the monk class, which is the increased unarmed damage. You might want to consider either fighter or ranger if you're planning to go the two weapon fighting route. Ranger would play more to the tribal nature, while fighter would give you a bit more of the feats you may want.

Here are some suggestions. I'm assuming you'll be starting at level 6 based off of a comment Darksiege made earlier. I'm also assuming you'll be playing a human. I'm building all of these up assuming the base rules. DE might have accelerated the rate at which characters gain new feats.

Ranger

Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Two Weapon Defense, Improved Two Weapon Defense

Be advised that the last feat requires a dexterity of 17. It isn't absolutely essential to the character, and you might want to swap it out for something different. Also notice that the first feat (and thus the second) require you to have an intelligence of at least 13. The monk class waives the requirements for Improved Trip, although Combat Expertise is pretty good by itself. Additionally, a non-human receives one fewer feat, so you would likely not be able to take the Improved Two Weapon Defense feat if you were a dwarf or a half-elf.

As a ranger, you would automatically get the following feats, regardless of whether you meet the requirements: Track, Two Weapon Fighting, Endurance, and Improved Two Weapon Fighting.

The ranger class also gives you an animal companion, and a lot of skill points to throw around. By level 6, you would also have a limited capacity for druid-like magic. You also would have full proficiency with nearly any weapon, light armor, and most shields. Not that this setup is interested in a shield.

Fighter

Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Defense, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Defense

Like with the ranger, a non-human gains one fewer feat. Also like the ranger, it's probably Improved Two-Weapon Defense that you drop off. Unlike the ranger, the fighter does not get to bypass the ability score requirements for the two-weapon fighting feats. You also get to wear heavier armor. Due to the way the two-weapon fighting feats work, you might just want to take the 17 dexterity and leave it there, without developing your ability to dual wield any further. Your extra attacks granted by the later dual wield feats are not very likely to hit, and the effects of higher dexterity scores are limited by heavier armor. Since a fighter can wear chain mail or breastplates (or even full plate), this makes an 18 or 19 dexterity less appealing than it is to a ranger. DE has fiddled around with the armor list for his game, so you'll want to ask him about that if this option strikes your fancy.

Fighters get bonus combat feats at level 1, and at every even level. Chances are if you want something, you can fit it in. Something like the Improved Grapple feat the monk gets - you'd probably knock off both two-weapon defense feats for Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple. If that sounds like it's up your alley, you might want to have a look at Knifefighter.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:49 am 
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Don't go monk unless you're doing it for flavor reasons (ie you have a character you really want to play). The class fails at a most basic level when it comes to game mechanics, generally considered one of the lowest tiers on the power ranking in that it fails to even serve its intended purpose, let alone do any other tasks.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:54 am 
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We're playing rather ... good characters this time. By good, I mean, exceptionally Holy religious do-gooders that in real life would annoy me to hell, so some character concepts may not fit in all that well.

Anyway, on monk:

I suggest the unarmed Swordsage variant as a monk replacement for this group. Play it the same way.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:16 am 
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Talya wrote:
We're playing rather ... good characters this time. By good, I mean, exceptionally Holy religious do-gooders that in real life would annoy me to hell, so some character concepts may not fit in all that well.


This is another very good thing to consider. You don't always have to fit in 100% with the party ideals, but if you are an evil bastard that steals from children and kicks puppies and the party is the type of people that would help said children and puppies, you are probably going to have a bad time. Or a good time, depending on if you are an ******* or not(because let's face it...people that play characters in groups like that are only out to **** with the other people in the party and don't really care about anything else except making everyone's life as miserable as possible).

Not saying that a cannibal won't fit in with a good aligned group. You didn't really specify what kind of cannibal you wanted to be.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:24 am 
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Swordsage variant may not be such a great idea.

Has Rynar ever played D&D before? How familiar is he with the rules? If we're helping him build a character, and are linking him to where he can find the rules online, it sounds like he is rather unfamiliar. As such, he should be playing using the same rules as everyone else. Tome of Battle introduces additional rules weight. There are more rules he has to learn and understand, as well as some exceptions to existing rules. Keeping it simple for your first character means using the same rules as everyone else. Since nobody else is using Tome of Battle, making a swordsage (and a variant, at that) isn't keeping it simple.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:26 am 
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Personally, I'd make you spend a feat for proficiency with those claws. As to actually building your character, what is your envisioned combat style? Do you deal your lethal damage from inside a grapple? The weaponry you are building your concept around I do not see as large damage dealers, therefore, if you want to play a beater, you're going to want something enhancing your damage output. Unfortunately, the warrior classes (those with a full BAB), are assuming that your damage enhancement is coming from your Strength, and don't really provide much in the way of extra damage from class features. You see more damage enhancement in the 3/4 BAB classes, mostly in some form of sneak attack dice. Monk does have some problems, mostly in that it's a poor translation of the concept from 1st edition. ToB classes are the result of WotC listening to charop monkeys whine about casters being overpowered, backed up with the "evidence" of non-organic 20th level wizard builds.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:31 pm 
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You might simply consider going Barbarian instead of monk. Wisdom is a primary stat for monks, and I don't really see that combined with cannibalism. (at least not the sort that is going to be reveling in the kill enough that would want to be slicing and dicing with hand claws)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:06 pm 
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I do not know that I would recommend cannibalism in a group like this... in general LG and cannibalism does not mix. The evil game would rock with more cannibalism.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:07 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:12 pm 
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If you want more cannibalism, then eat more people.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:18 pm 
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darksiege wrote:
I do not know that I would recommend cannibalism in a group like this... in general LG and cannibalism does not mix. The evil game would rock with more cannibalism.


Well, let's be fair, it depends what race he is. A brass dragon that likes eating chromatics is going to be an oddity, but not particularly reviled by good types.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:07 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
If you want more cannibalism, then eat more people.


I have done so.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:32 pm 
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DE and I have hammered the class out as Swordsage and are working out the concepts, both technical and RP, that will make the build work. At this point I'm just waiting for his ruling on the bladed gloves to go forward with skill selection.

The fighting style is basically a whirlwind hand to hand combat utilizing slashing attacks, stuns, and trips.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:32 pm 
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"Bladed gloves" could simply be ruled as a slashing version of spiked gauntlets, or perhaps punching daggers, unless there's some specific type of claw weapon already in the books.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:52 pm 
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Claw bracers out of Arms & Equipment.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:29 am 
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Corolinth wrote:
Swordsage variant may not be such a great idea.

Has Rynar ever played D&D before? How familiar is he with the rules? If we're helping him build a character, and are linking him to where he can find the rules online, it sounds like he is rather unfamiliar. As such, he should be playing using the same rules as everyone else. Tome of Battle introduces additional rules weight. There are more rules he has to learn and understand, as well as some exceptions to existing rules. Keeping it simple for your first character means using the same rules as everyone else. Since nobody else is using Tome of Battle, making a swordsage (and a variant, at that) isn't keeping it simple.


Yes it is. Tome of Battle is relatively easy to understand, and in any case, who said anything about a varient? (A varient that would really just essentially exchange exactly 1 feat for 1 other feat). Just because no one else happens to be playing a martial adept doesn't mean the rules aren't in use, either. They are. No one happened to choose those options. He is using the same rules as everyone else.

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