The Glade 4.0

The Republicans were willing to compromise on everything but Obama walked away from it. They just didn't do so in writing.

The bill that was passed by the house- you know, the guys who are supposed to be doing this- tabled. Not even a vote, no debate, nothing. Why? I feel it's because the Democrats thought they could win the war through public opinion. So the Democrats put nothing forth and just said "no" to everything that the Republican put forth.

You say compromise like there are choices anymore. We MUST cut spending. If we raise takes we WILL tank the markets further. Sorry but the giveaways have to stop. Democrats will have to start winning elections without the grab bag of goodies to give away.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

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In time, this too shall pass.

The whole performance really looked scripted to me. Wait, they saved the day at the last minute. Really.

S&P dropped the credit rating for poor scriptwriting as much as anything else.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

My "Tea Party" (whatever that means) Rep voted against this whole deal because he didn't feel there was enough spending cuts in it. He and several Tea Party minded individuals on this board have mentioned several times they would be in favor of the right military spending cuts. Not all military spending cuts are created equal.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

They're more likely to cut .mil retirement benefits than the cuts DE suggested.

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Have you ever considered that the "vast majority" of economists are in the position they are, because they tell those in power what they want to hear or how they can make magic money?

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Advisors of all kinds Wwen, not just economists.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

That's a given. I've heard of the never-ending-research-grant.

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Just heard an interview yesterday with a guy involved in the decision - he said the debt ceiling debate was a factor.

It may be lip service, I suppose, but I have no evidence to support that.

And you have no evidence other than the assertions of politically and ethically compromised parties with vested interests that the political situation had anything to do with it either ...

I'm really beginning to wonder if any of you actually try to think about our government or economic situation objectively and rationally.

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Governments are not all that different from households or corporations with regard to how they can operate, financially. It's only a matter of scale.

So when one judges the fiscal health of a government, compare how a corporation or a family would do if spending at the same level compared to their income for that long.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

You are correct. I have no evidence about what was taken into consideration other than the statements of those who did the considering.



Yes, the rational course of action is to completely disregard the statements of those who administer the ratings.

/facepalm

It is.

1. What government agency regulates Standard and Poor's?

2. How many Democrats are on said agency?

3. To which branch of the Government does that agency report?

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1) It's not an agency. US SEC
2) 3/4
3) Executive

Now, bring it all home! Why does this mean that the debt debate was not considered in the rating downgrade, despite multiple statements by those responsible, and why do your three questions indicate how a "rational" person must therefore completely disregard those statements?

It really is amazing to me how often conservatives/Republicans these days respond to unwelcome facts and expert opinions by reaching into the "Lies! Corruption! Conspiracy!" grab bag.

Is it? The Democrats clung tightly to theirs for 8 years. Shouldn't be all that amazing/surprising.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Wow. Did you say that with a straight face?

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Erm, it's not just Republicans. There's an equal number of Democrats who "think rationally" as well.

Actually, apparently neither you nor RangerDave are capable of forming an even remotely cogent thought.

1. Distrust of government does not make one a conspiracy theory whacko. Distrusting agencies and corporations exceptionally beholden to the government, like S&P, does not make one a conspiracy theory whacko either.

2. There's a giant **** conflict of interest right here in front of you ...

If you can't see it, then go get new glasses.

Standard and Poor's is ostensibly beholden to McGraw-Hill shareholders, but since they're in the international financial speculation and products markets, that means they have to play ball with the U.S. Government (and most of the world, but for now the USG is enough) ...

If they blame the party that has direct oversight of their operations and their particular behavior (the Democrats), then they risk capricious and petty reprisal. If they assist the Democrats in blaming someone who is not the Democrats, they lower any risk of reprisal for the downgrade.

But, you know, I guess since a Magic Negro didn't say this and didn't put it in writing, it's "silly" and a "conspiracy theory" and "irrational." Because, you know, comparing a bill that passed to a piece of **** vaporware and then blaming everyone else for your problems is absolutely rational and the hallmark of ostensibly the smartest president ever ...

That's been defended so much in this thread, RD's high horse crawled up his ******* and started shit-kicking his **** cerebrum.

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/dodge /deflect /parry /attack!

RUN KHROSS
10 PRINT "Hi, I'm Khross. It is a fact that " X
20 IF QUESTIONED=1 THEN
INSULT_INTELLIGENCE
30 X=X+1
40 GOTO 10

It's very predictable.



I fully agree.



I fully agree.



Are you an expert in optomology too??!



Ok.



Uh, ok....



LMFAO!!! Um, what?



Wait, who's on a high horse? What now? What in God's name are you talking about?

Anyhoo,

I answered your questions, 1, 2, & 3, and just agreed with your above points number 1 and 2. Now, BRING IT ON HOME!!!! Why does this mean that the debt debate was not considered in the rating downgrade, despite multiple statements by those responsible, and why do your three questions indicate how a "rational" person must therefore completely disregard those statements?

Do you mean to say that it may have been a consideration, but you don't think it was a big consideration because of the conflict of interest? Do you mean to suggest that we take statements from them regarding the magnitude the debt debate was taken into consideration with a grain of salt?

Arathain:

The Debt Ceiling Debate was not a consideration at all for S&P. It simply wasn't; and, as I said earlier in the thread, any attempt to say it was is just lip service for the President and the Democrats.

How many times do I have repeat that position?

The ratings downgrade is a purely a function of uncontrolled spending: after 30 years of running multi-trillion dollar deficits and tripling the national debt (official) in the last 5 years (Bush and Obama) ...

S&P made the determination that the United States is fast approaching the point it can't reach it's obligations. The fact that we're still AA, by the by, is a gross breach of conduct by S&P.


Guess how many of those junk bond categories apply to a government now borrowing more than it's taking in per year?

As for the part where you brain imploded?

RangerDave keeps talking about the "Obama Plan" or "Obama Deal" or "Obama Proposal" that was never put into writing and no one can vet. It's vaporware; it wasn't even a serious alternative to the McConnell Plan or the actual bill passed by Congress. However, RangerDave has certainly taken every opportunity in this thread to blame solely Republicans based on the fact that Obama offered an unwritten plan he claimed would have $4 Trillion in cuts and a minor revenue avenue. Funny how in all your concern about being "right" and being "smart" ...

You didn't even read the **** thread.

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Bullshit, the government is going to fix everything with their government powers.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Was Obama bitten by a radioactive accountant?

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Maybe he will shoot taxes out of his wrists to gather up the money to pay off our debt.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Ok, this made me actually laugh out loud... :p