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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:15 am 
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RangerDave wrote:
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I hate Harry Reid now, more than ever. His state is suffering through the worst unemployment in the nation and he praises Obama's decision to allow illegals to remain in the state.

More immigrants = more jobs not fewer. That's a big part of why the economy in Texas is doing better than the national average.

Ah so now you believe in supply-side economics?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:51 am 
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Hopwin wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
Müs wrote:
I hate Harry Reid now, more than ever. His state is suffering through the worst unemployment in the nation and he praises Obama's decision to allow illegals to remain in the state.

More immigrants = more jobs not fewer. That's a big part of why the economy in Texas is doing better than the national average.

Ah so now you believe in supply-side economics?


No, it's because a greater influx of immigrants requires more border control agents, more cops, more prison guards, more DEA agents, more social workers, and more sombrero manufaturers.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:04 pm 
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Not to mention that creating jobs only illegal immigrants can be used for and then claiming that they boost jobs is disingenuous. Someone can't afford an American housekeeper, but that Mexican woman for $2.50 an hour? No problem! If they had to hire an American worker or even a legal immigrant, they just would do without because minimum wage would rear its head.

I love how we always see these claims that immigrants "create jobs", but no mention of what these jobs are, who is taking them, or whether they are even legal jobs at all. Why exactly do we need job increases that are all going to illegals, and wouldn't pay enough to be worth taking even if they weren't?

It's just amazing. We jack up the minimum a job has to pay to be worthwhile with minimum wage, then let illegals come in and take jobs that pay a lot less under the table, and then claim we're creating jobs by having immigrants! Woohoo! We've got all kinds of jobs that don't pay as much as we as a society say is the acceptable minimum, all being taken by those dirty Mexicans! Obviously we should just be letting them come in legally since they help us out so much taking these jobs we aren't willing to take because they don't pay enough! Then they could avail themselves of legal protections like minimum wage for those jobs that.... wait for it... only exist because illegal workers who get less than minimum wage are available to take them.

It's hilarious to watch two leftist sacred cows have a train wreck with each other.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:24 pm 
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Simple DE the third holy cow of leftism - Unions- will solve it. The illegal immigrants can unionize to get better wages and then when the agricultural companies need to charge $8 for a head of lettuce, the unions can demonize them as Big Farma.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:50 pm 
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...

Man, you people are living on some planet that is not Earth ...

Or the rest of the country has gone retarded faster than Paris Hilton goes down on a Justin Timberlake lookalike at a rave.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:15 pm 
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Khross is the only guy I know who could drown in a rainstorm.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:48 pm 
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Hannibal wrote:
Khross is the only guy I know who could drown in a rainstorm.

:spit:

Thanks jerk, now I need more wipes for the monitor.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:28 am 
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RangerDave wrote:
Müs wrote:
I hate Harry Reid now, more than ever. His state is suffering through the worst unemployment in the nation and he praises Obama's decision to allow illegals to remain in the state.

More immigrants = more jobs not fewer. That's a big part of why the economy in Texas is doing better than the national average.


Not if there's jobs to employ them. People are moving to Texas because there are jobs in Texas. I'd like to see some statistical analysis of where the jobs you claim these immigrants are creating come from. That said, do you believe the same holds true for illegal immigrants rather than citizens who move within the US?



Colphax wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
Müs wrote:
I hate Harry Reid now, more than ever. His state is suffering through the worst unemployment in the nation and he praises Obama's decision to allow illegals to remain in the state.

More immigrants = more jobs not fewer. That's a big part of why the economy in Texas is doing better than the national average.

I'd have to disagree with you here, RD. Texas has done better in the recession due to the fact that a huge part of their economy is made up of the oil industry, which is doing fine despite the economic downturns. In fact, I'd bet that all the "bright spots" in the country have a heavy oil industry presence.


I can't disagree with you completely, because the energy sector (not just oil) and those closely related to it account for about 1/4 of the job increases last year in TX. However, if you removed the energy sector from the equation completely, Texas is still growing faster than any other state.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:22 pm 
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Illegals don't take jobs from americans. They take jobs americans won't accept.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:06 pm 
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This really isn't true. Lots of Americans would take construction and landscaping jobs, but illegals are cheaper.

As for agriculture, Americans don't take those jobs because they don't pay ****, and they don't pay **** because there are plenty of illegals willing to take **** wages. Without those illegals, the wages would have to go up, or the farming wouldn't get done.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:54 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
This really isn't true. Lots of Americans would take construction and landscaping jobs, but illegals are cheaper.

As for agriculture, Americans don't take those jobs because they don't pay ****, and they don't pay **** because there are plenty of illegals willing to take **** wages. Without those illegals, the wages would have to go up, or the farming wouldn't get done.


So you want to artificially limit the worker pool, causing businesses to have to pay exhorbitant prices (IE. Minimum wage or above), causing them to raise their prices, which increases inflation, which makes everybody lose money?

Labor is worth what people will do the job for, without any government interference. If americans want to do that work, perhaps they should lobby to get the minimum wage removed and offer to do it cheaper than the mexicans are doing it. Otherwise, they should stop complaining, because they are entitled to exactly jack and ****. I agree that there should be order and people should go through proper channels to get here, but they don't because the labor system is **** up. There is a demand for cheap labor that at present only illegals can fill. Demand will find a way to be satisfied. That's why all the manufacturing jobs have gone overseas. We have priced ourselves out of the market.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:20 pm 
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If I were king for four years I'd get rid of both the illegals and the minimum wage but that's just me.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:27 pm 
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There is another aspect to this. How much of the money earned by foreign workers (illegal or otherwise) stays in the U.S. Economy?

Based on my own experiences, I'm guessing not very much (most of it goes back to the home country).


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:18 pm 
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Rorinthas wrote:
If I were king for four years I'd get rid of both the illegals and the minimum wage but that's just me.

:thumbs:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:45 pm 
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There might be a reason why ...

Spoiler:
BARACK Obama's long-lost "Uncle Omar" has been arrested for alleged drink-driving outside Boston and detained as an illegal immigrant, The Times can reveal.
The arrest ends a mystery over the fate of a relative that the US President wrote in his memoir had moved to America from Kenya in the 1960s, although the circumstances of his discovery may now prove to be an embarrassment for the White House.

Official records say Onyango Obama, 67, was picked up outside the Chicken Bone Saloon in Framingham, Massachusetts, at 7.10pm on August 24. Police say he nearly crashed his Mitsubishi 4x4 into a patrol car, and then insisted that the officer should have given way to him. A report filed with the Framingham District Court said that a breathalyser at the police station registered his blood alcohol at 0.14mg/100ml of blood, above the state limit of 0.08mg.

According to a local newspaper, Mr Obama was charged with driving under the influence and driving to endanger, as well as failing to use a turn signal. He was detained as an illegal immigrant because the US Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement has an outstanding warrant for him because he was previously ordered to be deported to Kenya.

The Times has established from his birthdate that Mr Obama is the Uncle Omar mentioned in President Obama's best-selling memoir Dreams from My Father. In the 1995 book, President Obama writes of "the uncle who had left for America 25 years ago and had never come back".

In 2008, The Times mounted a search for Uncle Omar. Instead of finding him, we discovered his sister, President Obama's Auntie Zeituni, who was living as an illegal immigrant on a Boston housing estate. Uncle Omar and Auntie Zeituni are the children of President Obama's grandfather Hussein Onyango Obama, by his third wife Sarah, the woman President Obama calls "Granny", because she raised his father, Barack Sr, who was Hussein Obama's son by Hussein's second wife, Akumu.

The 2008 investigation unearthed public records naming an O. Onyango Obama, born on June 3, 1944, living at a house in the Boston suburbs, where he was known as Obama Onyango. Framingham police records list the man arrested last week as Onyango Obama, with the same birth date, June 3, 1944.

According to local reports, Officer Val Krishtal and another driver had to slam on their brakes to avoid hitting Mr Obama's car, which rolled through a stop sign and took a quick left turn. Mr Obama allegedly told the officer he had right of way and said he doubted the officer was forced to brake hard as he did not hear his brakes squeal.

Mr Obama pleaded not guilty at his remand hearing, but was held in custody because of the immigration warrant. He now faces a legal battle. His sister Zeituni eventually won the right to live in America despite an earlier deportation order. Margaret Wong, the Cleveland lawyer who successfully represented Zeituni, confirmed through a representative last night that she has also been retained to defend Mr Obama.

"Before he went to America, we all knew him as Omar. But he dropped that bit, changing it to Obama Onyango, because he said he preferred his African name," said Nelson Ochieng, a cousin in the Kenyan city of Kisumu.

Mr Obama's landlady in Boston went to court to evict him in 2000 for non-payment of his dollars 500-a-month rent. He was also a partner in a convenience store that was set up in 1992, and was attacked in a robbery at the shop in 1994 by two men armed with a sawn-off rifle.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/wo ... 6124269032


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:35 pm 
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And justice for all......

Screw it. Since the law is so flexible I'm just going to bend as many as possible.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:13 pm 
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Also I think we could get rid child obesity if we got rid of illegals and put the teenagers in the field, the way one of the locals here does it. My brother worked in the corn field from ages 15-18 and he turned out alright, lost a lot of weight the first year too. Younger kids can pick and/or break green beans.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:01 am 
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Talya wrote:
So you want to artificially limit the worker pool, causing businesses to have to pay exhorbitant prices (IE. Minimum wage or above), causing them to raise their prices, which increases inflation, which makes everybody lose money?


No, since it's not an artificial limit on the labor pool in the first place. The labor pool is being artificially inflated by Mexico dumping its surplus people on us; rather than deal with its own problems Mexico uses the U.S. as a safety valve.

This ability to hire cheap labor keeps farm more agriculture going than really is necessary, which drops food prices, thereby not only perpetuating the cycle by necessitating ultra-cheap labor to keep all the excessive farms going, but also being a primary cause of government farm subsidies; if food prices were higher, farms could stay in business without subsidies.

Food prices should go up, but because there should be less food, because there is less farming, not because we try to replace every illegal with an American or a legal alien on some 1-for-1 basis.

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Labor is worth what people will do the job for, without any government interference. If americans want to do that work, perhaps they should lobby to get the minimum wage removed and offer to do it cheaper than the mexicans are doing it. Otherwise, they should stop complaining, because they are entitled to exactly jack and ****. I agree that there should be order and people should go through proper channels to get here, but they don't because the labor system is **** up. There is a demand for cheap labor that at present only illegals can fill. Demand will find a way to be satisfied. That's why all the manufacturing jobs have gone overseas. We have priced ourselves out of the market.


Again, I'm all in favor of removing the minimum wage. However, this misses the point that there is entirely too much agricultural activity, and a lot of that is due to government interference. The government tries too hard to keep too much farming going on, thereby creating this demand because food prices are so absurdly low.
I'm all in favor of removing the minimum wage. The fact is, however, that

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:39 am 
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Hmmmm. Makes ya wonder if anyone has heard of CRP, where gov't pays farmers not to plant and grow.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:44 am 
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Labor pools aren't artificially inflated by workers migrating to where jobs are demanded DE.

That is the market correcting for the artificial price floor on labor imposed by the minimum wage.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:05 pm 
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Vindicarre wrote:
Colphax wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
More immigrants = more jobs not fewer. That's a big part of why the economy in Texas is doing better than the national average.

I'd have to disagree with you here, RD. Texas has done better in the recession due to the fact that a huge part of their economy is made up of the oil industry, which is doing fine despite the economic downturns. In fact, I'd bet that all the "bright spots" in the country have a heavy oil industry presence.


I can't disagree with you completely, because the energy sector (not just oil) and those closely related to it account for about 1/4 of the job increases last year in TX. However, if you removed the energy sector from the equation completely, Texas is still growing faster than any other state.

I will disagree. According a USA Today article from June of this year, Texas was middle of the pack in terms of percentage growth from 2000 at 26.8%, compared to Wyoming at 48.7% and North Dakota at 47.1%. In terms of size of economy, Texas is second compared to California, and as a total share of the US economy, gained a full % point over the other states, which was biggest increase in 50 years.

And while some would like to use Texas as an argument to support illegal immigration, in general, the states with the highest growth are also rich in raw materials, which can be used here or abroad for manufacturing purposes, have lower regulation and have lower taxes (Texas has no income taxes iirc).

Of course, if you are one of those that think Texas' growth is attributable to immigration so strongly, its hard to reconcile the same factions' tendency to equate minimum wage with economic growth.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:11 pm 
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What do you disagree with? That the energy sector (not just oil) and those closely related to it account for about 1/4 of the job increases last year in TX? That if you removed the energy sector from the equation completely, Texas still has higher job growth than any other state?

I really don't understand what you're saying. Texas is in the middle of the pack for job growth? I don't really know what those percentages mean. New jobs were created in WY adding up to a 48.7% increase in the past decade? I don't believe it...wait, ummm, Ladas, I'm talking about job growth. Are you?

As for your statement about my being "one of those", did you read the other part of my post?
Vindicarre wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
Müs wrote:
I hate Harry Reid now, more than ever. His state is suffering through the worst unemployment in the nation and he praises Obama's decision to allow illegals to remain in the state.

More immigrants = more jobs not fewer. That's a big part of why the economy in Texas is doing better than the national average.


Not if there's jobs to employ them. People are moving to Texas because there are jobs in Texas. I'd like to see some statistical analysis of where the jobs you claim these immigrants are creating come from. That said, do you believe the same holds true for illegal immigrants rather than citizens who move within the US?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:22 pm 
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What kind of jobs are they? Not all job markets are created equal. Is the IT sector still growing in TX? If so, I might be heading back to San Antonio after I separate.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:09 am 
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Wwen wrote:
What kind of jobs are they? Not all job markets are created equal. Is the IT sector still growing in TX? If so, I might be heading back to San Antonio after I separate.

If you opened a deli in Wyoming or North Dakota and hired 3 full time servers you'd pretty much end up with a 50% growth in jobs.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:40 am 
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Vindicarre wrote:
What do you disagree with? That the energy sector (not just oil) and those closely related to it account for about 1/4 of the job increases last year in TX? That if you removed the energy sector from the equation completely, Texas still has higher job growth than any other state?

You said you couldn't disagree with RD completely. My statement is that I was going to disagree with his statement that it was due to immigrants that the Texas economy was growing so fast. Perhaps not as clear as it should have been with your comment included in the quotes.

Quote:
I really don't understand what you're saying. Texas is in the middle of the pack for job growth? I don't really know what those percentages mean. New jobs were created in WY adding up to a 48.7% increase in the past decade? I don't believe it...wait, ummm, Ladas, I'm talking about job growth. Are you?

I'm discussing the same topic that RD was using, to which you responded. Not sure why you switched it to job growth from ecomony

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As for your statement about my being "one of those", did you read the other part of my post?

RD is "one of those", not you.


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