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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:57 pm 
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http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la ... 8995.story

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By Lisa Mascaro Washington Bureau

August 30, 2011, 1:25 p.m.
The White House accused congressional Republicans of holding additional federal disaster aid hostage to steep budget cuts, saying the country needs to put politics aside in the wake of Hurricane Irene and provide for Americans in need.

GOP leaders say they want new money for the Federal Emergency Management Agency's disaster fund to be offset with spending cuts elsewhere in the federal budget, an unprecedented approach to disaster aid that is creating a political stalemate as FEMA is about to run out of money.

"When we have a national -- a natural disaster and an emergency situation in, in this case, a significant stretch of the country, our priority has to be with -- has to be responding to the disaster and then helping those regions and states recover," White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said.

"I wish that commitment to looking for offsets had been held by the House majority leader and others, say, during the previous administration, when they ran up unprecedented bills and not paid -- and never paid for them," he added.

Rep. Eric Cantor (R-Va.), the House majority leader, has been steadfast about offsetting disaster funds. His office shot back Tuesday that in the face of the nation's $14-trillion debt load, the GOP approach was "the right thing to do."

"People and families coping with these natural disasters will certainly get what they need from the federal government, but the goal should be to find ways to pay for what is needed when possible," Cantor's office said in a memo.

Congress has hit an impasse over disaster funds as FEMA could run out of money within the month. Already, FEMA has prioritized its remaining resources -- using the money for immediate food, shelter and debris-removal assistance in the wake of Hurricane Irene but putting rebuilding projects on hold.

The GOP-led House approved $3.6 billion in FEMA funding, but the legislation has stalled in the Senate, where Democrats oppose the cuts to other programs.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:00 pm 
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The GOP-led House approved $3.6 billion in FEMA funding, but the legislation has stalled in the Senate, where Democrats oppose the cuts to other programs.


Wait, what? The dems are opposing 3.6 billion in aid?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:02 pm 
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Nonono, it's the GOP's fault.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:32 pm 
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Raltar wrote:
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The GOP-led House approved $3.6 billion in FEMA funding, but the legislation has stalled in the Senate, where Democrats oppose the cuts to other programs.


Wait, what? The dems are opposing 3.6 billion in aid?


No, they are opposing using a disaster bill to leverage more budget cuts.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:47 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Raltar wrote:
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The GOP-led House approved $3.6 billion in FEMA funding, but the legislation has stalled in the Senate, where Democrats oppose the cuts to other programs.


Wait, what? The dems are opposing 3.6 billion in aid?


No, they are opposing using a disaster bill to leverage more budget cuts.


No, they are opposing paying for disaster relief. In other words, they are opposing prioritizing the budget to allow for these increases. In other words, they are holding FEMA money hostage to avoid having to make cuts. In other words, they are prioritizing the funding for the programs being cut over the FEMA dollars.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:05 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
No, they are opposing paying for disaster relief. In other words, they are opposing prioritizing the budget to allow for these increases. In other words, they are holding FEMA money hostage to avoid having to make cuts. In other words, they are prioritizing the funding for the programs being cut over the FEMA dollars.


I don't think they oppose paying for disaster relief. They oppose cutting other projects to do it. Especially at the time of the disaster itself. Further, doing that is unprecidented according to the article, so it's not the Dems who are doing something new or different here.

I agree that this kind of funding is part of the overall budget picture, but I would argue that this kind of emergency bill is NOT where those arguments should be hashed out. Get the people in need the money now and then figure out the budgeting after the fact.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:13 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Buy Now, Pay Later!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:32 pm 
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Aizle wrote:

I don't think they oppose paying for disaster relief. They oppose cutting other projects to do it. Especially at the time of the disaster itself. Further, doing that is unprecidented according to the article, so it's not the Dems who are doing something new or different here.

I agree that this kind of funding is part of the overall budget picture, but I would argue that this kind of emergency bill is NOT where those arguments should be hashed out. Get the people in need the money now and then figure out the budgeting after the fact.


You see those underlined portions? That's precisely the problem, that more expenditures in one area are not being met with cuts in others. The fact that this is new and unprecedented is the problem.

Furthermore, while normally I would agree that emergencies should be dealt with rapidly and the political horse-trading later, the fact is that our government has a well-demonstrated history indicating that if the cuts are not made now, when the funds are spent, they will never be made.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:08 pm 
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I don't think FEMA can justify it's exhistance. YMMV.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:29 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
You see those underlined portions? That's precisely the problem, that more expenditures in one area are not being met with cuts in others. The fact that this is new and unprecedented is the problem.


I'd argue that we're in this pickle because the Reps come in and cut funding, but never actually cut programs. Dems are in my eyes at least intellectually honest with themselves and say, we want these programs and we'll raise funding to pay for them.

Admittedly they are trying to cut programs now, but IMHO the middle of an emergency (hurricane) is not the time to sort that out.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:31 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
Aizle wrote:
Buy Now, Pay Later!!!


Well, ideally there should be a slush fund for emergencies like this, but sometimes, yes buy now, pay later.

Just like I'm 100% sure that you've done at several times in your life.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:49 pm 
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Incorrect!

But thanks for painting me as irresponsible with my personal finances! Dick.

Also, show me evidence that politicians are capable of maintaining a liquid slush fund at the federal level.

The problem is, that there is always some new emergency or cause that "cannot wait" to be funded, and the solution to funding is always kicked down the road.

Republicans have come under incredible pressure from their base to change the spend then fund mentality of the status quo. You may not like it, but that is what they are trying to do.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:19 pm 
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Spending someone else's money is a pretty sweet deal when you can get it. It's the guy that the money belongs to that is the one who needs to put a stop to it by electing folks to do just that.

Which is exactly what is happening, albeit slowly and sporatically. Another reminder will be made in 2012, and if congress is smart, they'll go with the program their constituents want.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:31 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
You see those underlined portions? That's precisely the problem, that more expenditures in one area are not being met with cuts in others. The fact that this is new and unprecedented is the problem.


I'd argue that we're in this pickle because the Reps come in and cut funding, but never actually cut programs. Dems are in my eyes at least intellectually honest with themselves and say, we want these programs and we'll raise funding to pay for them.


I agree with the first part, the second not so much. What you said is true in and of itself except for the fact that the Democrats have been perfectly willing to go on with the programs even when they can't rise funding, and despite paying lip service to fiscal responsibility. The Republicans re not that great on fiscal responsibility bu they're at least dog-paddling in that general direction while the democrats are willing to go further out to sea.

I'd also point out that an unfunded program usually isn't much of a problem from a purely fiscal standpoint - money either gets spent or it doesn't. There can be 8 trillion unfunded programs out there; if money is never spent on them, it's never spent.

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Admittedly they are trying to cut programs now, but IMHO the middle of an emergency (hurricane) is not the time to sort that out.


Again, normally, I would agree. However, we've recovered from hurricanes before. Ultimately lack of financial discipline is far more of a threat to this country than a hurricane, and we've had a budget crisis and a debt limit crisis already this year and are looking at another budget crisis on Oct 1, no doubt. I'd say in this case now is exactly the time to be putting the screws on the Democrats of either "look, you help hurricane victims or keep the programs. your choice."

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:39 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
They oppose cutting other projects to do it.


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How in the crap do you pay for it then?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:20 pm 
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I'm sort of curious as to how people think states will handle major disasters without FEMA or any other kind of federal help, especially the majority of states that have balanced budget amendments to their respective Constitutions, so they can't even borrow money in a crisis. The total cost of Hurricane Katrina was about half of Louisiana's annual GDP, how are they supposed to deal with that if they can't borrow money? Say a similar hurricane hits Mississippi. That would costthem more than their entire annual GDP to clean up. It's not like they (the government or the individual people) can buy insurance, the only reason flood insurance is even available to people living in these areas is because the federal government subsidizes or mandates it.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:35 pm 
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darksiege wrote:
How in the crap do you pay for it then?
With Khross's money.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:56 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
I'm sort of curious as to how people think states will handle major disasters without FEMA or any other kind of federal help, especially the majority of states that have balanced budget amendments to their respective Constitutions, so they can't even borrow money in a crisis. The total cost of Hurricane Katrina was about half of Louisiana's annual GDP, how are they supposed to deal with that if they can't borrow money? Say a similar hurricane hits Mississippi. That would costthem more than their entire annual GDP to clean up. It's not like they (the government or the individual people) can buy insurance, the only reason flood insurance is even available to people living in these areas is because the federal government subsidizes or mandates it.

Move. God is trying to tell them to move **** inland and stop building their flimsy **** on top of that area.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:22 pm 
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I'm for disaster relief, if we can afford it. That's what the house tried to do. The senate could propose an alternative if it likes and send it back. However the Senate right now seems to be wary of doing that for some reason.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:40 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
It's not like they (the government or the individual people) can buy insurance, the only reason flood insurance is even available to people living in these areas is because the federal government subsidizes or mandates it.

Then they need to self-insure. Save up money in the years they're NOT getting hit by disasters, so they can afford to rebuild when they are.

If they can't save up enough money because the economy is too small, or the disasters come too frequently; it's not worth having permanent human settlements in the area.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:42 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
It's not like they (the government or the individual people) can buy insurance, the only reason flood insurance is even available to people living in these areas at rates not commensurate to the risk is because the federal government subsidizes or mandates it.

FTFY

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:24 pm 
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I try to always carry this into household terms. Just because I don't go to the movies because I had a flat tire doesn't mean I'm out to get Goodyear or Cinnemark. It's just the way things are. Yes the government, like me can go out and get credit to a point, but what if I promised people that I'd stop doing that.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:19 am 
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I wonder when it was that people started expecting the government to take care of everything?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:22 am 
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