The Glade 4.0

The fact of the matter is that a large portion of the population views people in the lower eschelons of the service industry as beneath their notice, and not worthy of respect. Of course they don't see welfare recipients as better, but at least on welfare you don't have to broadcast this and expose yourself to their derision for 50 hours a week. Working in fast food isn't even hard work, but it's damn hard to deal with a series of customers that look like they would spit on you if it wouldn't get them arrested.

I'm sorry yo feel that honest work is something to be ashamed of.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

I don't feel it's something to be ashamed of. That doesn't make it any easier to suffer everyone's derision. I'm sure you know or at least know of people who have a general disdain for people in "McJobs", make jokes at their expense, insult their intelligence, and generally don't treat them like human beings.

This.

I went from having an awesome career as an IT consultant for a university with a nice cushy salary with benefits in a professional environment, to working M-F for barely minimum wage as a waitress at a roadhouse.
Is it demeaning? Well, yeah, it's a little humiliating. But am I ashamed? Nope. I have a job in a town and an economy where even minimum wage jobs are hard to come by. At least I'm working.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

I think LK highlights an important distinction. There's a huge difference (in my mind, at least) between feeling embarrassed about something and being ashamed of it. The latter, to me, implies a moral failure of some kind, whereas the former does not. For instance, when I was drifting my way through my early 20s, living with my folks on and off, working "low-status" jobs, and racking up a ton of credit card debt, I felt a little embarrassed about my situation whenever I bumped into people I hadn't seen in a few years, but I never felt ashamed about any of it. If I'd gone on the dole, however, which I could easily have done in lieu of going so far into debt, I would have been ashamed, because that would have been taking a handout I didn't truly need.

I've never collected a welfare check, food stamps, or had to work for minimum wage to make ends meet. That said, I will never forget my experience working for AMC as a teenager. Obviously at that point I didn't need the job, but I had co-workers who did need their jobs, and I've never met a group of people so miserable. Even the ones who had credible plans for the future had emotional problems. They got no respect from anyone. Many customers showed them no respect, up to openly insulting them within earshot, and you could tell that it affected them. They got paid the same age as us, (maybe $0.25/hr more) and had the same official duties as us, but the managers gave them all the shittiest, nastiest work because they knew they couldn't afford to complain, in contrast to the teenage part timer workers like me who might have walked out if we'd been asked to do it. I remember once I accidentally threw out a crucial part of the popcorn machine due to a misunderstanding. (they asked me to throw away a part that was getting replace, and I threw away both that part and an important connector) Did they make me, the one who **** up, go through the piles and piles of garbage to find the piece? No, they reassigned that task to one of the minimum wage 20-somethings barely getting by. That made me feel terrible, but I can only imagine what that must do for the self-esteem of the other guy. That you're so worthless that the part-time teenage employee who doesn't need to work is worth more than you.

And? That is why you continually strive to better yourself. You push harder and harder to GTFO of the situation and find better work.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Your statements are in direct contrast with the idea that you don't feel it's something to be ashamed of, even without the statements that you'd be less ashamed to take welfare than work at McD's.

Dude, I've worked since I was 15, guess what kind of jobs a 15 year old can get. Guess which 16 year-olds were buying their own car and taking girls out with their own money. I felt absolutely no shame (or embarrassment, RD), especially when I saw the guys who were "above" working the places I worked getting money from their mommies to pay for what I was selling.




You'd collect welfare rather than getting a job? I don't imagine you'd give the $2 million away so you could go on welfare and not work, that wouldn't be very sane or rational. It would allow me to retire about 5-7 years earlier than I'd planned, however that's not really the same as taking money because you'd rather be on the dole than work.


It made you feel terrible, just not terrible enough to get the piece yourself, right?

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Working in fast food at 16 is vastly different from working there at 26. At 16, you don't NEED the job. If you get fired, you don't have armageddon hanging over you.

Also I never claimed I would take welfare over a fast food job. I claimed the opposite. I DID claim that I would take welfare over a 80-90 hour job picking crops. I would get over my embarassment to work fast food, believe it or not. My taking welfare over that farm job is 100% about avoiding the backbreaking labor in 100+ degree heat, it has nothing to do with shame.



I would have done it had they asked me, but no, I didn't feel terrible enough to jump in front of that bullet and demand that I be the one to do it.

When I was 15+, I NEEDED the job. My parents couldn't afford to pay for my school, or my school clothes without sacrificing too much on their part, like getting another job themselves. My not having a job would have been too great a burden on my parents. If I'd done that, I would have been ashamed.

Oh, sorry, when you stated that "nobody is going to work full time for minimum wage" or that "nobody wants to go work at McDonalds because that admits failure far worse than going on welfare...When you go to work there, on a full-time basis to support yourself, you have basically admitted that you are a failure at life and will never amount to anything."

I thought that your use of "nobody" kind of included yourself, by necessity. Next time you should add something like: "except me".

So, where does letting someone else fix your mistakes when they are too distasteful to handle yourself lead one in life, X?

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Can we just go ahead and merge this thread into "This is what's wrong with the Republican base?"

Essplain?

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

I made that statement from the perspective of a recent college graduate looking for a job in their field who can't find one. From that perspective, going to work at McDonalds is a failure, as you have failed in your aspirations to become whatever you studied for and now must go work at McDonalds. And once you start down that road of working a low paying job to support yourself, it becomes increasingly unlikely that you will ever get out of that position and "amount to something," as now you have to handle the job search and the full time job at the same time, in comparison to focusing all your energy on the job search. Also a lot of the work involved with a job search is emotional, you have to keep your self-esteem up and stay motivated through failure, that's much harder when you're getting your self-esteem routinely assaulted at work.



Well, that is different. I got the job because my parents wanted me to learn how to work, manage money, get experience, get out of the house, etc. I certainly did not need it.

Snark.

No, dude, I seriously don't get it.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

LK, I think he's using this as kind of an example of another difference between two ideologies.

X, I understand the concept you're trying to get across. When I volunteer at the soup kitchen (for lack of a better word), I'm always the one who scrapes the uneaten food from the peoples' trays, because no one else wants to do it - but it's got to be done. When I'm doing it, I can see some of the people who come there for free food unable to hide their expression of disgust, as if that would be beneath them, as they hand me their trays (or in some cases toss them at me). Guess where that attitude has gotten them in life. I like you, I find you to be intelligent and thoughtful, but I think some of the ideas you've come up with (or been taught) won't/aren't/haven't served you well in life.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Right after we merge you with RD!

Both are perfect examples of people here letting opposing political viewpoints be carte blanche to attack fellow posters personally. Also, both are prime examples of taking others' viewpoints and extrapolating the worst, most extreme viewpoints from them, regardless of any particular support of that.

Oh ok.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

AND I'LL FORM THE HEAD!

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Holy shitsnacks!

Today I learned...

The quoted phrase "and I'll form the ***!" yields a mere 41 hits on Google. 46 if you drop the "and".

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

Please don't put me in that "large portion of the population" that "views people in the lower echelons of the service industry as beneath their notice". I happen to have been one of those people, working for my dad's janitorial service (his secondary job, I might add) for $50.00 a month cleaning toilets and emptying waste baskets in office buildings. That is AFTER working a full time job and going to school! You haven't lived until you have cleaned a **&* men's restroom!! (Micheal might figure it out, since it's our power supplier )

I have always and always will offer up a smile and/or words of incouragement to a hardworking individual in a service industry, especially during stressful times such as holidays!

Xeq you really need to get over your negative opinion of "most people". Most people are not as bad as you seem to think they are!

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"Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use one!"~ Matthew Quigley

"nothing like a little meow in bed at night" ~ Bruskey

"I gotta float my stick same as you" Hondo Lane

"Fill your hand you son of a *****!"

No, they're worse.

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Holy shitsnacks!

I can't believe that anyone who can afford to go to a football game would be willing to sacrifice their integrity for a couple of bucks ($1,000 blown around several sections wouldn't be much per fan).

Maybe I'm just naive. You might start seeing problems in the 100s of dollars per fan, but prior to that, there's no serious temptation. People aren't going to be immoral without serious temptation. The default is morality.