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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:21 am 
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091113/ap_on_re_us/us_republicans_abortion_insurance

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WASHINGTON – A chagrined GOP Chairman Michael Steele has told Republican National Committee staff to immediately stop providing RNC employees with insurance for elective abortions — an option that Republicans strongly oppose as Democrats try to pass a health care overhaul bill.

"Money from our loyal donors should not be used for this purpose," Steele said in a statement late Thursday after learning of the abortion coverage from a news report. "I don't know why this policy existed in the past, but it will not exist under my administration. Consider this issue settled."

Steele instructed staff to inform the insurance carrier that the RNC wanted to opt out of elective abortion coverage, RNC spokeswoman Gail Gitcho said. She said the policy has been in effect since 1991.

A memo earlier from RNC Chief of Staff Ken McKay to the organization's members said Steele was taking the matter very seriously and "has been engaged by phone on this issue."

The GOP platform traditionally includes strong anti-abortion language. All House Republicans, except one, voted for an amendment imposing restrictions of coverage for abortions in the health care bill that passed the House last Saturday. Inclusion of the abortion restrictions prompted an angry backlash from liberal House Democrats, and some are now threatening to vote against a final bill if the curbs stay in.

The memo said the RNC received a phone call from a reporter on Wednesday asking whether the RNC's health care policy, through Cigna, covered elective abortions for employees. On Thursday, Politico.com published a report citing two sales agents for Cigna who said the RNC's policy covered elective abortion.

The Cigna employees said the RNC didn't choose to opt out of abortion coverage when given the opportunity, Politico.com reported.

"Upon learning of this story, at the chairman's direction, we immediately contacted the Executive Committee," the RNC memo said. "We will be scheduling a call with the Executive Committee in the immediate future to discuss this matter more fully."

The memo said the RNC health insurance policy has been in review for some time.

"Chairman Steele had already called for an official review of our health insurance policy along with a number of other operational items," the memo said.


Remember how hard and bitterly the GOP fought to get all traces of possible abortion funding excised from health care bill on morality grounds? Well, this is gonna bite them in the ***. Remember, abortion is only bad if other people do it. God understand why I'm special and I need to have one.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:36 am 
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I actually commend them for doing this, stepping up and walking the walk of their platform (the rightness or wrongness of their platform is a debate for another day...or preferably, another board, as we've hashed it out so so so many times). The downsides are that it took them this long, and that they are only now doing it when the health care bill abortions are such a hot topic. It comes across as a cynical attempt to shore up votes and minimize political fallout from the hypocritical position of opposing abortions and funding them at the same time. Which, coincidentally enough, is exactly what it is.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:16 am 
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Changing policy provisions in group insurance is a bloody nightmare.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:45 am 
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Xequecal wrote:
Remember how hard and bitterly the GOP fought to get all traces of possible abortion funding excised from health care bill on morality grounds? Well, this is gonna bite them in the ***. Remember, abortion is only bad if other people do it. God understand why I'm special and I need to have one.


Stop being absurd. If that were the case they wouldn't be trying to eliminate the coverage now. More like it just recently occured to someone "hey.. our insurance pays for abortions! We can't have that!"

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:52 am 
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Perhaps the GOP just needs to read their Bible a bit more carefully.

"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." - John 8:7


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:06 am 
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I fail to see how being late to eliminate abortion coverage while trying to eliminate it from universal health care equates to condemning people for sin.

How about you leave the Bible quoting to the Christians, Aizle?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:20 am 
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The Cigna employees said the RNC didn't choose to opt out of abortion coverage when given the opportunity, Politico.com reported.


This would be the most damning portion depending on the fine print.

I've become much closer to a pro-life position since having a kid, so I can sympathize with the sentiment of not wanting your tax money to pay for abortion. On the other hand, I'm sure lots of people have things they'd rather not see taxes pay for.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:12 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Perhaps the GOP just needs to read their Bible a bit more carefully.

"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." - John 8:7


Wait, so the GOP is a Christian party exlusively? I'm not a member, but I'm pretty sure that isn't the case. I'm pretty sure if I registered to be a Democrat or Republican, I'd be elligble for both.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:15 pm 
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Screeling wrote:
I fail to see how being late to eliminate abortion coverage while trying to eliminate it from universal health care equates to condemning people for sin.


Put another way, first remove the rafter from your own eye. Either as a group or as individuals, one doesn't have free reign to use moral reasons to push policy when one is violating that same morality themselves--at least, not without looking like a hypocrite.

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How about you leave the Bible quoting to the Christians, Aizle?


Why? Most Christians don't know whats in it anyway. Of those that do, most of them selectively ignore whatever they don't like.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:14 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Put another way, first remove the rafter from your own eye. Either as a group or as individuals, one doesn't have free reign to use moral reasons to push policy when one is violating that same morality themselves--at least, not without looking like a hypocrite.

I think they did that, did they not? But the passage isn't intended to give somebody license to criticize so long as they're not a hypocrite. Its telling people not to pass judgment (in the form of condemnation) on people.

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Why? Most Christians don't know whats in it anyway. Of those that do, most of them selectively ignore whatever they don't like.

I wouldn't consider any of the Christians on this board guilty of that and I honestly don't give a crap about your opinion of Christians as a whole. The point is, he misapplied a verse in an attempt at a gotcha for a group of people not even synonymous with Christian.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:42 pm 
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Screeling wrote:
I think they did that, did they not? But the passage isn't intended to give somebody license to criticize so long as they're not a hypocrite. Its telling people not to pass judgment (in the form of condemnation) on people.


And whether you like it or not, pushing policy based on one's religious views that abortion is murder is passing judgement in the form of condemnation on anyone who disagrees.

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I wouldn't consider any of the Christians on this board guilty of that.



/shrug

Those aren't discussions I feel like putting as much time and effort into having as I did in the past, but suffice it to say that the level of biblical misinformation i've seen from Christians posting here has been as high as anywhere else. Of course, I have to give people a bit of leeway...it's impossible not to ignore things one disagrees with when your holy book does the same thing in frequently disagreeing with itself. Oh yes, I've seen the convoluted explanations people try to come up with to explain away the things they dislike or that seemingly contradict other passages. In the end, it's all pretty amusing to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:43 pm 
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Screeling wrote:
How about you leave the Bible quoting to the Christians, Aizle?


Ah, so it's a super secret text that only Christian's understand? Riiiiight...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:47 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Screeling wrote:
How about you leave the Bible quoting to the Christians, Aizle?


Ah, so it's a super secret text that only Christian's understand? Riiiiight...



Well, Christians and Dan Brown.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:51 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Screeling wrote:
How about you leave the Bible quoting to the Christians, Aizle?


Ah, so it's a super secret text that only Christian's understand? Riiiiight...


More likely it's used by non-Christians in a wholly inappropriate way, using only the parts you want while ignoring the rest. The passage you quoted is followed by "Is there anyone here who condemns you?", then, "Neither do I condemn you. Go, and sin no more." (paraphrased) Sounds like that's what the GOP is doing, don'tcha think?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:37 pm 
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Beryllin wrote:
Aizle wrote:
Screeling wrote:
How about you leave the Bible quoting to the Christians, Aizle?


Ah, so it's a super secret text that only Christian's understand? Riiiiight...


More likely it's used by non-Christians in a wholly inappropriate way, using only the parts you want while ignoring the rest. The passage you quoted is followed by "Is there anyone here who condemns you?", then, "Neither do I condemn you. Go, and sin no more." (paraphrased) Sounds like that's what the GOP is doing, don'tcha think?


Not really. The GOP isn't in the position of Jesus in that quote, they are the mob. Perhaps they should spend less time condeming those around them and more time focusing on their own actions.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:50 pm 
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They should do both imo. Condemn abortion and make sure they are not involved in paying for it either. The GoP and the blue state pro-life democrats or really any pro-life government official should act accordingly if they chose that path lest they be hypocrites as in this case.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:52 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Not really. The GOP isn't in the position of Jesus in that quote, they are the mob. Perhaps they should spend less time condeming those around them and more time focusing on their own actions.


Not so, the GOP is in the position of the woman. They've been paying for abortion coverage, and they now have to stop doing so ("Go, and sin no more.")


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:54 pm 
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It's just more proof that their stance on abortion really isn't all that genuine.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:56 pm 
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Taly have I ever used religion to condemn abortion? You're now judging an entire group based on a beleif that you have contrary evidence for.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:59 pm 
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Best I can tell, the RNC is actually incorporated in Washington, D.C. Let me know when you're just casting stones at a business following their "state-equivalent" group insurance regulations, Aizle.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:00 pm 
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Just to underscore my point here about not only the GoP being pro-life:

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... ealth-bill

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Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) pledged this morning to defeat healthcare reform if his abortion amendment is taken out, saying 10 to 20 pro-life Democrats would vote against a bill with weaker language.

“They’re not going to take it out,” Stupak said on Fox and Friends, referring to Senate Democrats. “If they do, health care will not move forward.”

Stupak’s amendment prohibits any insurance plan on a potential healthcare exchange from accepting federal subsidies if it covers abortion. Pro-choice lawmakers say that language is too broad and would drastically reduce access to abortion. …

“[T]hat is why Mr. Axelrod is not a legislator, he doesn’t really know what he is talking about.”

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:02 pm 
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That amendment represents the largest attack on a woman's reproductive rights in a very, very long time. It's really, really frightening that conservatives are so willing to hand the state the power to force a woman to bring a pregnancy to term.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:08 pm 
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I don't have a bone in the abortion argument. Because the argument isn't ever about whether or not taking a life or controlling someone's body is or isn't wrong. We all know both of those are wrong. Insteaad, the question that must be answered is when does life actually begin to where inherent rights are being violated?

Monte, you are only clearly right in your own mind because you don't consider that the abortion might constitute the taking of a life. That if a woman takes the risks to become pregnant, and decides to have an abortion, that the rights of another being may have been violated, depending on your view of when life beings.

So, until the question of when this thing becomes not a thing, but a human with inalienable rights is answered, this debate is largely useless. And the fact is, there is no such answer and won't be.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:23 pm 
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There's no forcing by the state, they simply wont pay for an abortion with taxpayer money.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:04 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Taly have I ever used religion to condemn abortion?



Yes. Your theory of "Inherent Rights" is a religion to you, in and of itself. You freely admit that there is no logic behind it, it's a personal belief you have, that if not held in common with someone debating you, there's no point in discussing the matter further because there's no common point of reference. It's just something you use to justify pushing your views on others as law.

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