The Glade 4.0

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

The War on Terror has done more damage to our freedom than terrorists ever did.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Yeah i mean why didnt anyone think to go arrest him?

Unless he means tried in absentia which I'd be fine with. It's good to have people pushing back on this but I'm fine with blowing his *** up.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

The comments on that article are terrifying.

I know. These people vote - if they read and discuss politics online they are likely supervoters. Some are "its ok because Obama did it" some are "its ok because someone called him a terrorist".

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

So explain how he should have been tried in a US court.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

1. Extradition
2. Letter of Marque
3. Trial in absentia

From there you get lawyers, gather evidence and present the case to a jury.

You have heard of trials before right?

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

So you and Dr Paul would be fine with trying an American citizen in absentia and condemning them to death. Is that what I'm reading? Or you're just interested in the trial part and still leave him to his own devices in Yemen or wherever-istan.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

It wouldn't be my preferred method at all but it is an option and you asked to explain how - not what would you want done. Also I don't know how you even took that to mean its anything that Paul wants.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

We were cooperating with Yemen to target the guy. Why couldn't we have cooperated with Yemen to capture the guy? We obviously knew where he was, following him from that point isn't that hard, I imagine, in these days of Predators and satellites. And we've proven we can send SEAL teams in to capture guys alive.

Failing that, no, I wouldn't have a problem with a public trial in absentia. It's certainly preferable to executions of American citizens. He'd be welcome to show up to trial if he felt his rights weren't being adequately honored or he wanted to exercise his right to face his accusers.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

It is worrisome that the people in charge are ok with hunting down and assassinating alleged criminals.

It's more worrisome that so many of the American populace are, judging from the article's comments.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Well the American populace haven't sworn to uphold the Constitution, which makes it abundantly clear that everyone under the U.S. jurisdiction (such as citizens) has a right to due process.

Yes, but it's the populace's apathy that lets the people in charge feel they can get away with breaking their Oaths.

It's also the populace whose anger needs to be present to vote out people who do.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

I agree. I think a lot of the liberals who would normally be protesting are too much in denial about their Chosen One.

We finally have our common enemy that we need protecting from at all costs. Protecting freedom from the enemy is how you build a totalitarian regime.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

A public trial in absentia would be fine. I'm concerned that Dr Paul seems to think we can just find this guy like we did Timothy McVeigh. That to me sounds part delusional and part armchair quarterbacking.

He also didnt bring up any specifics on why an American citizen has any bearing. So far as I know the Constitution applies to everyone with respect to the 5th amendment not allowing the government to deprive anyone of life without due process.

I would guess the key here is the "war" designation.

Anyway Paul just seems to say we should "think very seriously about this" and it's "sad" not illegal. I'll agree with both of those.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

We found him to kill him.

The key here is he was overseas. There are no Constitutional due process protections for non-citizens overseas. There are for citizens regardless of their location.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Apparently if you live abroad as a U.S. citizen, you can still vote for U.S. elections, your children are citizens, and you have to register for selective service.

We managed to find Saddam Hussein for a trial. That actually was war, too.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Also Saddam wasn't a U.S. citizen.

Anyways, this mess we're seeing now is clearly Bush's fault.

I think the implication here (not saying I agree with it) is that he's effectively renounced his citizenship by committing treason, and is therefor not entitled to constitutional protections granted citizens.


Again. Not saying I agree with that, but that's probably part of the logic they're using.

IIRC. We didn't try Hussain. The Iraqis did.

To commit treason, you need to be convicted in a fair trial. Otherwise you are a suspect and alleged offender.

not to commit treason, but perhaps to be found guilty. Perhaps he renounced his citizenship directly?