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Khross
 Post subject: Obama's Asian Tour
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:09 am 
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What's the general opinion here on his diplomatic efficacy in Asia?

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Dash
 Post subject: Re: Obama's Asian Tour
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:44 am 
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Bow, or is the Emperor judo throwing Obama to the floor?

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He likes to show his deference and come off as humble and apologetic. I dont think it gets him anything.

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Ladas
 Post subject: Re: Obama's Asian Tour
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:32 am 
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Khross wrote:
What's the general opinion here on his diplomatic efficacy in Asia?

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Hopwin
 Post subject: Re: Obama's Asian Tour
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:40 am 
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Khross wrote:
What's the general opinion here on his diplomatic efficacy in Asia?

I've never been a big fan of sitting Presidents taking "goodwill" tours. I can't say that I've ever seen anything come of it in my lifetime.

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Diamondeye
 Post subject: Re: Obama's Asian Tour
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:12 am 
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I'm disgusted that the President of the United States would bow to any monarch, regardless of rules of ettiquette.

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Xequecal
 Post subject: Re: Obama's Asian Tour
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:18 am 
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Not sure how the rules for that work in Japan, but isn't the Japanese emperor supposed to bow back?
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Khross
 Post subject: Re: Obama's Asian Tour
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:19 am 
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Xequecal:

He isn't, and he didn't.

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TheRiov
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:21 am 
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But in the United States the President is NOT a king, nor is he considered any form of royalty. We respect the office, but the man is still a man as any other.
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Khross
 Post subject: Re: Obama's Asian Tour
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:33 am 
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No one said anything about Obama, TheRiov. Someone asked if it was protocol for the Japanese Emperor to bow back.

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Dash
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:40 am 
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I also understand China blocked him, and didnt air anything of his visit.

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Kaffis Mark V
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:59 am 
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Asian tours? Aren't those what rock bands do when they've washed up and lost their popularity in the States?

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Müs
 Post subject: Re: Obama's Asian Tour
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:04 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
I'm disgusted that the President of the United States would bow to any monarch, regardless of rules of ettiquette.


I don't have an issue with a respectful bow between equals.

What Obama did in that picture disgusts me too. Why don't you just kneel down and press your forehead to the ground there spanky?

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Rafael
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:43 pm 
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I don't have a problem with him trying to show respect. It's not a sign of submission. Or if it is preceived as one, such a perception is no more substantial than the arbitrary cultural values that place it as a sign of respect.

However, I think he has better things to be doing like interrogating Ben Bernanke.

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Talya
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:51 pm 
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Rafael wrote:
I don't have a problem with him trying to show respect. It's not a sign of submission. Or if it is preceived as one, such a perception is no more substantial than the arbitrary cultural values that place it as a sign of respect.



This. /shrug

I understand you have a proud tradition of flipping the bird at monarchies. So what...you're not alone in this world, it's not a bad thing to act like a member of a community rather than the bully on the playground. You're a country on the decline, your days as a superpower are numbered. The world will not need the USA, the USA will need the world. Best to learn to get along with people and follow their etiquette as a sign of respect when visiting them. Apart from the diplomatic value, it shows you have a shred of manners and class, which is something the USA has a reputation around the world for not having. That reputation may not be deserved, but the boorish, uncultured American is certainly a stereotype that many believe in.

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Rafael
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:55 pm 
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Except, as dumb as we are, the rest of the world is just a little bit dumber. The US Bond Market is proof of this.

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Dash
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:46 pm 
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Talya wrote:
This. /shrug

I understand you have a proud tradition of flipping the bird at monarchies. So what...you're not alone in this world, it's not a bad thing to act like a member of a community rather than the bully on the playground. You're a country on the decline, your days as a superpower are numbered. The world will not need the USA, the USA will need the world. Best to learn to get along with people and follow their etiquette as a sign of respect when visiting them. Apart from the diplomatic value, it shows you have a shred of manners and class, which is something the USA has a reputation around the world for not having. That reputation may not be deserved, but the boorish, uncultured American is certainly a stereotype that many believe in.


While I'd agree we're on a downward trend that's part of this as well. Obama is trying to hasten our approach towards mediocrity by trying to implement systems seen in places like Canada or France or Western_European_Democracy_01. So perhaps he feels the way you do.

As for the boorish reputation, people of lesser nations typically get that impression and I would say Americans by and large just dont care what they think. We're fairly isolationist and insular in that regard. Some clearly do care, dont get me wrong, but many dont.

In any case I dont see how this would change anything. Many nations have poor reputations for something or another. At the end of the day it's what can you do for me no matter who it is you're dealing with.

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Screeling
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:37 pm 
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As I understand it, he bowed way lower than his status should require.

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Hopwin
 Post subject: Re: Obama's Asian Tour
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:38 pm 
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Let's see what the Chinese have to say about it:

Quote:
BEIJING (AP) - State media heralded President Barack Obama's maiden trip to China as a triumph, but ordinary Chinese were largely shielded by their government from his most critical remarks and activists were disappointed by the measured tone of those they did hear.

One blogger even pined for the tough line taken by former President George W. Bush.

"Like a star rushing from one show to another, Obama has come and gone, without stirring the slightest ripples," blogger Zhao Dezhu wrote in an online post.

Zhao, who writes a popular blog and twitters under the name Hecaitou, said the visit made him miss Bush who "couldn't speak with flowery language and even made grammatical mistakes but spoke as plainly as an American farmer."

Obama, by contrast, speaks "with sweet but empty words."
*Snip*

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Monte
 Post subject: Re: Obama's Asian Tour
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:54 pm 
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[quote="Dash"]Bow, or is the Emperor judo throwing Obama to the floor?

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He likes to show his deference and come off as humble and apologetic. I dont think it gets him anything.[/quot

If you look at US opinion around the world, it has increased significantly since Obama became President. Eisenhower did the same thing - bowing.

I don't understand why right wing commentators go ballistic every time Obama shows a cultural sign of respect to a foreign leader or dignitary. They had no trouble what so ever when bush went walking hand in hand with the Saudi prince.

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Elmarnieh
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:57 pm 
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The deeper the bow shows the lower the station.

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Monte
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:58 pm 
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You bow deeply to people of high rank. What he did was perfectly fine. Other Presidents have done so before him. The outrage is sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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Ladas
 Post subject: Re: Obama's Asian Tour
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:04 pm 
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At least he isn't holding White House gift shop souvenirs in his other hand as presents.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:06 pm 
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Monte
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:06 pm 
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Guys, the days of cowboy diplomacy are gone. They were rejected in the last election. Humility is a good thing. We don't have to be dicks to be America.

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Elmarnieh
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:13 pm 
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No one is saying we do Monte. Except you with your strawman.

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