The Glade 4.0

It's an appeal to tradition because you are arguing that since things aren't how they used to be, people are placed in unreasonable circumstances they can do nothing about. This isn't the case. If times change and things that are deemed illegal still haven't changed (the taking of life, as the case allegedly is) they can choose to have personal responsibility or suffer the consequences of their actions. You are arguing that other things must change because history isn't how it was before.



That is a non-sequitor. Allowing abortion to supposedly make life more managable for the underpriviledge does not demonstrate why appealing to pity is not a fallacy. It is a type of appeal to emotion. Read this again and explain how it's meant to do anything except cite anecdotes to garner pity:





Or maybe I shouldn't since this is also an appeal to emotion and anecdotal.



No one is asking them to suppress anything. Only that they take responsibility for their actions. You argue this is impratical. That doesn't matter because it doesn't demonstrate why it's right or wrong.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

No.

There are 3 types of certificate or degree for RN's in the US, and 2 (that I know of) for LPN (her program).
RN:
1) Hospital driven certificate - Certificate program through a hospital
2) ADN - Associate of Nursing, through juco or 4-year school
3) BSN - Bachelor of Science in Nursing

All result in the exact same license: Registered Nurse.

LPN:
1) Hospital driven certificate
2) APN (or similar name) - acquired through a tech school or juco.

Both result in the exact same license: LPN


Neither have any post-secondary education as a requirement, though an RN (even an ADN) usually has some basic post-secondary gen-ed type requirements. The LPN does not.



Moot point.



None. Recert doesn't work like that.


Edit: To reiterate the original point lest we lose it, it's laziness, not the pregnancy and child, that "ruins their lives."

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

If that were the case, then using it in an argument about whether abortion should be legal is a misleading red-herring. The "pro-choice" bunch won't understand it because as they see things, a pregnancy is a consequence that can be retroactively eliminated.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

That's not entirely true. The pro choice bunch believes that reproductive health is something between a woman and her doctor, that the state has no business forcing any woman to bring a pregnancy to term, and that a woman has sovereignty over her body.

Simply put, as it was ruled in Roe V Wade, women have a right to be left alone when it comes to controlling their reproduction.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Monte, the pro choice bunch has no problem with governmental interference as long as they go pro choice... the OP shows that if the government decides to have nothing to do with abortion... there are issues.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

A core purpose of government, darksiege, is to protect the rights of it's citizens. The pro choice movement is clearly in the right on that end of things. The constitution says very clearly that citizens are born or naturalized.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

All persons under the jurisdication of any of the states are afforded legal protection of their rights - according to the Constitution. Thus the fetus has protections just as any citizen. Thanks for playing.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

No, the Fetus does not have that protection. The mother's right to privacy does not just go away because she happens to be pregnant. It is none of the government's business if she is pregnant or not, nor is it any of their business how she chooses to control her reproduction.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Constitutionally they do Monte so long as they are inside any state, embassy, military base, or District of Columbia.

I don't think you understand that the right to privacy does not grant an allowance to infringe on the rights of others.

For example in a room in my house that has no visiblility to the outside I can expect privacy. I cannot however punch someone in the face simply because I have my right to privacy as my right does not void the rights of others. It just shows you have a weak grasp of how rights work and an even weaker grasp of why Roe v Wade was decided outside of the scope of the case.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

That's just not the case, Elmo. The "other" in this case has no rights.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Hmmm, it appears illegal aliens and enemy combatants don't fall under either category, I guess the Gov't shouldn't protect their rights.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

They have rights, their protections have been stripped away because people have dehumanized them in order to support their own convenience. It is easy to oppress a minority that one cannot say and cannot speak out on its own. I think this just clearly reveals how liberalism is really just a power struggle between different groups trying to out oppress each others. The first group victim is the group that of course cannot vote and cannot lobby.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Ahh, but we have laws on the books that say otherwise.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

According to your logic, those laws are unconstitutional.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

That's up to the courts to decide, I suppose. Laws we have preventing our citizens from torturing non citizens are not unconstitutional. As for laws that protect undocumented workers, that's up for debate, I suppose.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1864 ... 09.article

A Cook County judge set bond at $500,000 this afternoon for a man accused of killing a pregnant woman and her baby while driving under the influence of drugs last month.

James Cox, 39, of the 4300 block of West Maypole, is charged with aggravated DUI for the Oct. 21 crash on the West Side. Cook County prosecutors say Cox was driving a minivan that blew a red light at Kostner and Washington and crashed into a Ford van, which then hit four pedestrians. One of those pedestrians was Kim Brown, who was six months pregnant. Brown was killed in the crash. Her baby boy was delivered by cesarean section, but he died the next day. Prosecutors say Cox had traces of cocaine in his system when he was arrested.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/14 ... index.html

(CNN) -- A Mississippi schoolteacher was sentenced to life without parole Wednesday for shooting and stabbing to death her lover's pregnant fiancee in 2006.


Carla Hughes met the victim's fiance at the middle school where she was a teacher.
The same jury that convicted Carla Hughes of two counts of murder Tuesday for the death of Avis Banks spared her life, declining to impose the death penalty.

Mississippi is among the states that consider murdering a pregnant woman to be taking two lives.

Madison County District Attorney Michael Guest asked the panel of nine women and three men to sentence Hughes to death based on the gruesome nature of Banks' murder.

Banks, 27, was found lying in a pool of blood on November 29, 2006, in the garage of the Ridgeland home she shared with Keyon Pittman, the father of her unborn child. She was five months pregnant.

She had been shot four times in the leg, chest and head, and then stabbed multiple times in the face and neck as she lay dying, according to medical testimony.

Prosecutors alleged that Hughes killed Banks so she could have Pittman, a colleague at Chastain Middle School in Jackson, to herself.

"She took Avis Banks' life and the life of her unborn child because she wanted that life," the prosecutor said.

The jury deliberated Wednesday for about an hour to decide on the sentence after hearing emotional testimony from seven defense witnesses, including her parents.

"Carla has been a kind, loving person all her life," said Carl Hughes, who adopted his daughter when she was 6 weeks old.

"I'm not asking you, I'm pleading with you, to spare my daughter's life," said Hughes, who is also a teacher.

He said that the person portrayed by prosecutors as a cold-blooded killer was completely different from the accomplished honors student, equestrian and beauty pageant contestant that he knew and loved.

Suspicion initially fell on Pittman, who admitted to having an affair with Hughes, a language arts teacher. A key prosecution witness, Pittman told the jury he began seeing Hughes one month after finding out his girlfriend was pregnant. He testified that the two met frequently in Hughes' home and even went out of town together, but he insisted the relationship was based solely on sex.

Throughout the trial, defense lawyers maintained her innocence and attempted to cast blame on Pittman, portraying him as a womanizer seeking to avoid the burden of fatherhood.

Prosecutors alleged the murder weapons connected Hughes to the crime. The defendant's cousin testified that he lent her a knife and a loaded .38 caliber revolver the weekend before Banks' death. Ballistics tests matched the bullets from Banks' body to the gun, which Hughes returned unloaded to her cousin after her first interview with police.

None of Banks' relatives testified at the sentencing. Instead, the jury heard from a forensic pathologist, who described the nature of Banks' injuries.

Madison County Deputy District Attorney John Emfinger urged the jury to look past Hughes' prior achievements and focus on the crime in rendering its sentence.

"In my mind, this overshadows everything else she's done in life. She took the lives of two people in that garage," he said in his closing argument Wednesday.

"When that door opened, (Avis Banks) was not met by a beauty pageant winner, she was not met by a member of the mayor's youth council, she was not met by a peacemaker. ... She was met by a stone-cold killer," he said.

=======================================================================

This is a contradiction in law in my opinion. If these people can be charged with murder of children that are under the third trimester, then that is saying that Elmos opinion is correct. Then by extention, doesn't that make abortion murder? Or by extention doesn't that make these people only guilty of a single murder?

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

The touchy-feely types want to have it both ways, Hannibal. They know in their gut that women should have the choice to kill their unborn children, but others shouldn't.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

If I am a Doctor and kill a pregnant woman during an abortion, is it double manslaughter because an accident killed both instead of the surgical procedure killing one?

I'm really not trying to be snarky, it just seems like a huge double standard.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

Poisoning the well, Kaffis.

The so-called touchy feely types do not believe that a fertilized egg constitutes a human being with full rights and responsibilities. They also do not wish to sacrifice a woman's reproductive rights and privacy rights on the altar of another person's subjective morality.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Pretty sure that doctors don't get prosecuted if someone dies on their table, unless malpractice, negligence, or intent is there.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Ok, but if I sneeze while driving and kill a woman who is 4 months pregnant, I get double tapped with manslaughter. What about equal protection under the law?

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

It is.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Monte, where in the constitution does it say that the government must help a woman terminate a pregnancy? I am all for letting a woman abort.. but I also think that the government should not be paying for the abortion via welfare or any public health care options either.

If the couple who is expecting wants to abort, let them pay for it themselves. Otherwise they should have taken other precautions.

Either the government can tell you what they will let you do to you body.. or they do not tell you what they will let you do. You can't have it both ways. If you want to have them tell you what you can or cannot do.. then you give up your freedom. If you do not want to have them tell you what you cannot do; you lose public tax abortions.

Either way.... if people do not want to risk having a baby.. stop ****

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

I'm surprised you're taking that angle. You do realize this is one of the best avenues for total government control of someone's life possible, right? When you get pregnant, we as the government will decide how long and if you can work, where and how you can travel, what you can eat and drink, and whom you can associate with. If you don't comply you're guilty of "child endangerment" and we'll lock you up.

I am pointing out that it is two charges of manslaughter.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville