The Glade 4.0

Incorrect.

You bow deeply to people of higher rank.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Or older. Not so much with China or India, but def in Japan and Korea where age is an important factor.
If you did it in China you're essentially asking for money (red pockets) =P

That's as maybe. But we don't have to be doormats either.

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Holy shitsnacks!

Meeting the emperor is a "very formal" situation. His bow is not out of place, and in no way shows subservience. You have incomplete information. My guess is that it comes from your martial arts experience.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

And he wasn't. Just because *you* think it looks that way doesn't mean it actually is what you claim. He went, and properly bowed.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Wrong.

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The Dude abides.

You don't understand the asian culture very well I see. Things are only "very formal" if it's within the 'family' (Clan, distant relatives, relatives by marriage, students of the same masters, etc). Otherwise all outsiders are guests and treated with respect because most Asians would just die of shame if the guest was not treated with the up most respect while within their house. This is especially so where rank is concerned.

You are however right his bow is not out of place. It also doesn’t show subservience, but respect (especially since the dude is much older than him, thus is the Jap tradition.)

Screeling, I am not incorrect. Seriously, this is much ado about nothing.

Lydiaa, it is expected that this sort of bow be given to an Emperor. Here's an editorial from someone with experience with the culture -

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Trying to extrapolate from secondhand knowledge of Japanese culture is kind of silly, IMO. This is a very specific circumstance here, and I don't think it's necessarily relevant to talk about things like colleagues in an office greeting one another or whatever. It's not worthless knowledge, certainly, but it's not the whole and final picture. Established precedent (like that video, but the video is clearly biased so I don't know how far to trust) is something to look towards, and I imagine one of the 89723423424 articles published on this actually comes from people intimately familiar with Japanese political protocol.

I think it's much ado about nothing, ultimately, but I rate "it's Japan, they bow there" just as uninformed as "presidents don't bow to anyone".

...though I'm pretty sure bowing while shaking hands is not part of any precedent. :p But I wouldn't mind awkward if his meaningful policies were good.

Shaking hands as creeped into the culture of bowing in Japan. Check it out on Wiki or the article I posted. Interaction with the West has altered custom somewhat.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Perhaps, as a gesture of our humility, we should offer up a strip of land to be annexed. It's just a gesture of respect!

I don't have a problem with our President bowing his head in a gesture of respect. I'd even be pleased to see him bow at the waist a few degrees in an Asian country.

Obama's **** parallel to the floor. That says something, and it's not "I am humble." It's "I am here for you to walk all over me and give you everything you want. I am your slave."

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Are you honestly equating a perfectly reasonable and culturally acceptable gesture to giving up actual land? Really?




Your inability or unwillingness to understand the culture in question does not mean that the President was in error. It simply illustrates your ignorance.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Yes, Montegue. I resorted to hyperbole. Wow, you got me there. :rolleyes:


By a subject, perhaps. That's what has me pissed off. My president is not the Emperor's subject, no matter how respectful or humble he wants to be.

Montegue; I suppose all those other world leaders -- and their wives, and generals -- were utilizing American cowboy-style diplomacy?

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Not just by a subject, Kaffis. By anyone. Anyone at all who meets him. Just like you bow to the Queen when you're in england, and just like how everyone is expected to stand up in America when the President enters the room.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Like all the other people in the video respectfully did, then.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Which was very kind of them. Looks to me like both sides of the meeting were offered their proper courtesies.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

I have no problem with Obama acting subserviant to the Japanese. Maybe he should apologize for the U.S. winning WWII while he's at it.

You bow lower than an elder bows to you. You do not come back to attention until your elder does.

However, this applies more to pre-Meiji Restoration. The resurgence of bowing as a cultural thing is sort of a reaction to the over-compensating during the Meiji Restoration and again during the "McCarthyism" period.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

This guy isn't just an elder. He's the emperor. There are specific traditions related to the Emperor, just like the President.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Cool. Ask the Emperor to annotate those to you next time you guys are having tea.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

The correct diplomatic gesture is to vomit all over him.

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Hahahah winner

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

Mookhow has about as much experience with this protocol as most people here do, so... why not.

ABC News Blog

And they mention a picture of President Nixon performing the bow properly...


Obama's bow was too low. In bowing that low he displayed subservience and obedience that one would show their lord, not what a foreign dignitary should display.

My issue is not that he bowed, but that he essentially gave the "Your highness... if you believe me to be your enemy, command me, and I will gladly take my life"

PS- I currently have a message out to a Japanese friend of mine in Japan trying to find out the 'rightness' of the bow and posture during the bow.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Yay, actual insight! That is exactly the kind of article I was hoping for in my earlier post. I am doubly pleased that it ends in a similar way as my post.