The Glade 4.0

You forget, Elmo considers lethal force an appropriate response to any perceived impingement of his personal space.

I've read at least 4 articles of people being rapped and others that involved lesser degrees of sexual assult.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Elmo plans on joining the protest with unpopular (among the protestors at large) signs/views.

I've seen some stuff where the various "security teams" for the Occupiers were at the very least intimidating and implying threats when people deemed "not worthy" or whatever tried to take up space.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Yes,numerous.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Yeah, I've seen unconfirmed reports of such things (mostly limited to gropings and general creepiness, though; hadn't heard of any actual rapes). Not to minimize those things, of course, but the ones I've heard of involved protestors assaulting other protestors who are camped out at night, not random bystanders being attacked. Also, it seems unlikely that Elmo, Rynar or Hannibal would be targets either way.

Oh, well you weren't clear in that regard.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Yeah, I could see that triggering some aggressive responses. I have to say, though, I literally walk by Zuccotti Park every weekday on my way to and from work, and often people-watch in the vicinity when eating my lunch, all while dressed in the full Wall Street Lawyer(TM) uniform, and I've never had so much as a snide remark tossed my way. Hell, I even cut directly through one of their angry, shouting marches one day to go get a coffee, and folks just politely stepped aside to let me pass. I'm not saying there aren't assholes in the crowd, and ymmv on any given day, of course. It's just that my personal experience has been that there's more theater than danger.

On further reflection, though, I suppose if someone was waving an anti-OWS sign or something, that person could be perceived as part of the show in a way that a random guy like me just going to work isn't. As a result, harrassing and intimidating the sign guy would be more part of the script, the way confrontations with the cops are.

Aye, sorry for the confusion.

That's horrible, and I certainly don't mean to belittle the offensiveness of the acts, but I have to admit this typo makes me chuckle every time I see it.

Well Elmo isn't one to stand there and get drawn into a bad situation. Besides +p ammo ain't cheap and he is. So the poo flingers have that on their side.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

Reported Rape

Testimonial:


Assaults:


The daily caller obtained arrest records, I'm sure your local media has too, see for yourself rather than resorting to saying things are "unconfirmed reports" and "general creepiness".

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

In a "community" of this size what is the standard number of rapes in the same given timeframe for a city of equivalent size? Is there a higher likelihood of getting raped amongst the hippies or at a frat party?
*shrug*
Either way these people need to move on or come up with a message.

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I'd be willing to bet there is a higher likelihood of being raped being a OWS participant than being a Tea Party participant, even though those Tea Partiers are obviously comprised of angry racists.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Uh RD - I am always armed where legally able to be.

If one could predict where something violent will happen no one would have violent things happen to them.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Are we moving the goalposts? I'd bet there is a higher likelihood of being raped as a TP participant than being a trappist monk.

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its not an anti-OWS message. I am against corporatism as much as anyone else down there - likely more. I just disagree on the causes and thus the best solutions. Polite disagreement has resulted in violate property damage at Philly OWS and literal **** smearing. Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/user/OnePeoplesP ... -r7IQMbq-A

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Moving the goal posts, Hopwin? I don't know, I compared two recent protest movements; I didn't compare a protest movement to a frat party, or a city.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

What goalposts? I didn't even make any comparisons. RD asked if there had been cases of violence and I just stated what I've read.

If we want to get into comparisons though, we can have all kinds of fun with that.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Yeah, I wasn't looking to draw comparisons; just wondering what the source of folks' safety concerns were, given that I hadn't seen much in the way of articles about violence and my own experience has been fine. That said, if we were to compare, I'd say the likelihood of assault, in descending order from most likely to least likely, goes like this:

Most likely

• Cop assaulting OWS protestor
• OWS protestor assaulting cop
• OWS protestor assaulting other OWS protestor
• OWS protestor assaulting counterprotestor
• Tea Party protestor assaulting counterprotestor
• OWS protestor assaulting innocent bystander
• Tea Party protestor assaulting innocent bystander
• Tea Party protestor assaulting cop
• Cop assaulting Tea Party protestor

Least Likely

Which of those has actually happened, RD?

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Basically 1-6. I've seen video of 1, 2, 5 and 6, read articles (now) of 3, and I'd be amazed if 4 hasn't happened at least once.

I guess that answers your original question, eh?

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Also, define cop assulting OWS protestor. There's been too many "Yeah the cops told us to leave, gave us ample warning then warned us some more THEN they got physical....ASSAULT!!!"

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Let's fix that up. "Cop assaulting" means assaulting, not "the cops assaulted me because I got arrested and they're jackbooted pawns of the banks and politicians" or "they assaulted me because they tear-gassed me when I was throwing rocks or bottles and committing vanadlism and riot."

So far I know of exactly ONE incident that looks to be incontrovertibly excessive force; that ex-Marine that got hit with the grenade and went down. Other than that it's people like that chick "uh yeah, we were throwing rocks and bottles but they should have done something else besides gas us! I don't have the foggiest clue, but something! Preferably nothing, because we're protesting the evils of Wall Street and therefore that somehow gives us a right to do whatever the **** we want!"

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

One of these women, DE?



They're not throwing rocks or bottles. They're just standing there, behind the netting, and the cop walks up and pepper sprays the group. That's assault. Sure, there was lots of chaos generally, and blah, blah blah. But if dude can't keep his **** together, he needs to find a new job. And in the meantime, he needs to be prosecuted for assault.

More generally, go on You Tube and just watch some of the videos of how the NYPD has handled the protestors. There are more than enough examples of cops taking a quick baton shot or whatever at guys being smart asses (which is not illegal, even if it is rude) or who happen to be standing next to someone who's being a smart ***, cops running their scooters into crowds, etc.