The Glade 4.0

Taamar:

We have reached an impasse, past which point I'm not sure it's constructive to further argue.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Numbuk:

Would you mind answering the second portion of my post?

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Ry, allowing a child to get a scratch from a cat as a natural consequence of him beating the animal in an act of impulse control over his anger, is hardly equatable with a child playing in the street at that age unsupervised.
Learning a lesson from a cat is age-appropriate, it will not kill him. Playing in the street, however, could very well get him killed or kidnapped. In that instance, natural consequences are not appropriate, but parental ones are...when my child was 18 months old, every time we were outside he ran straight for the street. I constantly went to retrieve him immediately...finally, after a couple of months of this, I gave him a spanking he'd never forget...and he never set foot off the curb again.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

What if the cat kidnaps the child? Those cats are pretty shifty looking.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

And this is what I had a problem with from the very first post I made after I saw the picture.

Assuming the person filming the event is the parent or responsible adult, not a sibling causing trouble

That parent is witnessing through the lens of their video device, their child, upset and crying, sitting less than a foot from a cat who is obviously on edge and alert; face level, no less.

As I previously stated, I have no problem teaching a life lesson should my son do something that will warrant it. But, placed in the same situation, I put down the camera and intervene so this doesn't have to be a life lesson.

The cat can do damage (if it is not declawed), I don't care one bit for your handpicked videos of "more common" occurances with children and cats. Most obviously, the cats in both of those videos are declawed. Should I have been video capturing when my son was standing face to face with my cat when he lashed out a paw and caught my son under his eye with a claw?

A parent does not need to sit back and let their child learn these "Life lessons" when they are in the position to prevent it. Me, I stop my child when he is in the observed state before he lashes out at the cat. If I am too slow to prevent him from doing so, I certainly don't sit back and let the cat get his lashes in because he gets to finish the fight (Seriously, WTF Taamar).

My point is simply, be a better parent. People and their "America's Funniest Home Videos" obsession has taken too strong a hold. I actually cringe at what I see on that show fairly often. I often wonder how a parent or responsible adult can sit idly by when danger is apparent. Put down your f*cking smart phone and be a goddamn parent.

Hey, you all want to sit back and let your kids learn a hard, possibly painful lesson when you could prevent, who am I to intervene. Me, I think I'll err on the side of my child's safety and teach him the life lessons when he does something that, despite my efforts, hurts or scares him. My son has gotten close to touching a lit gas burner on the stove, but my and Oonagh's sharp yell stops him in his tracks. We have reinforced that it is hot and it will hurt. He repeats this when I open the oven to check on dinner, too. "Daddy, oven hot."

But, I guess I should have let him burn himself to properly teach the lessons as so many here seem to support.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

...

Just so you know, having children neither makes you an automatic expert on good parenting nor gives your opinions on parenting any authority.

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Oh, we all know, Khross. We still are aware of your expertise on everything.

No one here, at least that I saw, made any statement that they are an expert on parenting. I would wager, though, that I am a better parent of a 2-year old, at the moment, than anyone here that doesn't have a 2 year old.

Stricken from the record - See post below for explanation.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

Um, no, that would make you the ONLY parent of a 2 year old here (if no one else has one)...I'd be careful saying things like that. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of good parents here who could step back in and parent a 2 year old with excellence, no problem.
At any rate, arguing about who is a better parent or a good parent or a bad parent on here is not going to go anywhere pleasant.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

I'm fairly certain you're actually not aware of my expertise on anything, seeing as how you (like almost every other poster) take great pains to avoid those subjects in any meaningful way. You are aware of my opinions or posts on subject I choose to discuss and not much else; consequently, I can't fathom how perpetuating a insult and negative character opinion of me actually serves to demonstrate the following:But, you know ...

Keep taking things personally when they aren't personal; I'm sure someone's sense of schadenfreude gets satisfied by it.

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My sense of schadenfreude is satisfied every time I watch the animated .gif that started all this.

Ha. It still makes me laugh.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
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OK, look. I apologize for the last post.

1) First part directed at Khross was an attempt at levity. Khross, I did not intend it to sound as if it was an insult.

2) I'd like to rescind the second part as the meaning I was trying to convey is not what was perceived.

Please see the rest of my statements on the ORIGINAL issue. This is where I stand. I do not claim to be an expert on parenting, but I stand by how I will protect and teach MY son. As I have said repeatedly, all the rest of you are free to parent in any way you see fit for your children.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

Also Khross, how about addressing my points instead of telling me that I may or may not be an expert on parenting and that my opinions may or may not carry any authority.

You seem content to cast aside all of what I said in response to Shel's post with a simple statement.

Agree or disagree. Tell me I'm wrong and tell me why or agree with me and support a statement I made.

Your dodge by discrediting those such as myself as an expert (which I never claimed to be) adds nothing.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

There's actually no need for me to address anything specific in this thread: not your posts or anyone else's. I'm not particularly concerned with the specifics of anyone's position. Rather, I'm 100% certain that my post was addressed to no one specifically and used "you" without a preceding antecedent. I was speaking generally, about pretty much everyone (which includes me).I'm pretty content cast aside all of what "anyone" says in response to "anyone's" post most of the time. The why's and wherefore's for those decisions are pretty much my own, but they rarely have anything to do with who is making the post. I tend abstract the things you guys post. I make the thoughts into objects and consider those objects in an array filled with other objects--thought objects if you will. I look at the logic and rationales, and then I generally go on my merry little way without actually saying anything. I'm, in general, rather fond of how thought objects exist outside my own perceptual space.These statements constitute a false dilemma; I don't have to choose to agree or disagree with you. I can remain subject neutral on this topic. I can also do as as I chose to do: comment on the over-significance of experiential evidence in this thread.I actually didn't disqualify anyone as an expert on anything; I posted a reminder that personal experiential evidence is fundamentally anecdotal for everyone else.

In fact, I'm willing to bet I've never actually told you (or anyone else) how to parent their child; I'm willing to bet I've never even suggested anyone here abrogate any parental responsibility or authority. Just not my thing ...

You are free to conduct your family business as you see fit.

That I believe as much should be readily apparent to any Glader; if it's not, well, they don't read my posts very carefully. And that's ok, too ...

Choice matters.

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I agree Khross. This is true same as not having them also doesn't make a person an expert, however considering my profession and my professional influence on Foamy with working with children for years, having a minor in child psychology and development along with my teaching degrees, and being mother does help. I think I qualify fairly well on parenting. My job just doesn't entitle me to teach Social Studies, I teach Social skills, life lessons, many of all those needed for success. I talk about parenting on a daily basis and discuss strategies with parents all the time on how to handle situations with their children as they arise. I think Foamy has a pretty good guide.

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"None is more important, none more legitimate, than that of rendering the people safe as they are the
ultimate guardians of their own liberty."- Thomas Jefferson

"Yeah, I'm rehearsing my poker face. I don't handle stupid well. *sigh*" - Farsky

Despite your usage of "you" without a preceding antecedent, your post happening directly after mine would lead to the assumption that it was aimed directly at me despite your grammatical maneuvering to disguise it.



Thanks for the explanation.



Yes, I guess you are correct. I forgot the option to remain neutral. But as I stated, your timing seemed to imply that you were directing your commentary at me specifically.



I try to read your posts carefully. This has led me to two things:
1) A better vocabulary
2) The fact that you enjoy cryptic postings that seem to require a follow up to ask you what you are talking about.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

In fairness to Khross, I'm quite sure his post wasn't directed at you, Foamy, and was more of a general commentary.

In unfairness to Khross, I'm also quite sure that he has legions upon legions of Ferberized doom-bots.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Discussions on topics involving children would be much more civil if parents were capable of acknowledging that having children caused them to lose their minds.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Hence me reminding you not to take it personally ...

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Most parents acknowledge this.

i.e. "These kids are driving me crazy!"

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Foamy - neither Taamar nor I are suggesting that we would have willingly allowed the situation portrayed in the video to have escalated as it did. In fact, I clearly stated that in my first post:

Essentially, I see only 2 possible opportunities for "intervention": before the kid hit the cat, and a very brief moment after the kid hit the cat but before the cat tackled the kid. An intervention at the first opportunity would be a "no fault" separation - a purely precautionary measure. An intervention at the second opportunity would have been a restraint of the child to prevent him from further attacking the cat and a rebuke for mistreating it in the first place. Since both of these intervention opportunities were missed, what we're doing is assessing what actually happened and how we feel about it. On those terms, what I see is "kid hits cat, cat hits kid" and how I feel about it is "no bleeding, nothing broken? OK then, let that be a lesson to you". Even in the event of serious injury, you can't constructively punish the cat because it doesn't possess the reasoning capacity to understand the nature of crime and punishment. You either keep the cat and take a more active role in supervising future child/animal interactions or you give the cat away. Any retaliation against the cat would simply be venting your own anger and teaching the cat that it can expect rough treatment both at the child's hands and yours.

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Go back to zero, take a pill, and get well ~ Lemmy Kilmister

But then I wouldn't have had a clip of a cat tackling a child off a bed to keep me entertained on a Monday.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Taly, you are awesome thank you

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Dream as if you'll live forever...
...Live as if you'll die tomorrow

Vivere Senza Rimpianti

Parenthood isn't something that can be mastered, and evaluation of a parental decision can only be done after the fact.

Example: I may have wanted to kill my kids, but it's only after I actually rip their heads off their scrawny necks 'cause they climbed on top of my car can that it be considered a "bad parental decision".

Conversely, deciding NOT to kill them isn't a "good" decision.

Feeding them to the Sarlacc though, is a win-win decision, and I'm good with that.

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In time, this too shall pass.

That part wasn't there when I responded to your post originally.

Of course it isn't wise in that respect. My point wasn't that a 3 year old is on the same level as an adult. But very basic and primal concepts, they most assuredly grasp. Touch that hot thing, it will hurt (they still do it more for the question of "Just how hot is it really?"). Break that object and mommy gets mad. Hit my brother and I get in trouble. Smack an animal and I get bit.

I see 3 year olds who get in trouble for things like that get really upset. And it's not because "Why are you doing this to me? What did I do?" it's more "I dislike the consequence for my actions and I have no means of recourse!" The crying is more being upset at the result of their actions, as well as a last-ditch attempt at sympathy and getting what they want. How many times have you seen a 3 year old smack their head on something and then quickly look around to see if any adults noticed? How many of you have witnessed that if they find that nobody noticed, that they just go on their merry way... but if they catch an adult noticing, along come the waterworks?

Yes, my kids will hate me. And I'm fine with that.

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Les Zombis et les Loups-Garous!