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 Post subject: Child Labor & Newt
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:34 pm 
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/la-p ... 5588.story

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Promising “extraordinarily radical proposals to fundamentally change the culture of poverty in America,” Newt Gingrich said Friday that he would fire school janitors and pay students to clean schools instead.

Speaking at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, the Republican presidential candidate and former speaker of the House challenged laws that prevent children from working certain jobs before their mid-teens.

Gingrich blames “the core policies of protecting unionization and bureaucratization" for “crippling” children.

“It is tragic what we do in the poorest neighborhoods, entrapping children in, first of all, in child laws, which are truly stupid,” he said.

”I tried for years to have a very simple model,” he continued. “Most of these schools ought to get rid of the unionized janitors, have one master janitor and pay local students to take care of the school. The kids would actually do work, they would have cash, they’d have pride in the schools, they’d begin the process of rising.”

Gingrich, who over the weekend said Occupy Wall Street protesters should "get a job" and "take a bath," suggested during the Harvard appearance Friday that poor children need to build a work ethic.

"Get any job that teaches you to show up on Monday," he said. "Get any job that teaches you to stay all day even if you’re having a fight with your girlfriend. I mean, the whole process of making work worthwhile is central."

Gingrich is the latest Republican presidential candidate to challenge front-runner Mitt Romney in the polls.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:38 pm 
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Not a terrible idea.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:49 pm 
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in asian countries studenrs actually take turns cleaning their own classrooms and certain parts of the school

without pay


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:08 am 
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I had my first job when I was 10, working in my uncle's meat market. My job was to climb underneath the industrial disply freezers and break loose all the ice, clean out the drains, and wash the coolers. Once I was done with that I would go into the walk-in freezer and clean all the machinery, the walls and floors, drain, de-ice, and clean the chicken pit, then I would do the dishes.

Looking back on the experience today, it was probably the very best thing that ever happened to me.

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 Post subject: Child Labor & Newt
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:40 am 
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With everything else, it comes down to implementation. I don't think the remarks are as bad as everyone makes them out to be.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:25 am 
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I don't see anything wrong with this. Cleaning up trash and emptying waste baskets is not the same as using industrial strength cleansers in other areas.

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 Post subject: Re: Child Labor & Newt
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:06 am 
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"Child labor" is one of those weasel words. I had my first formal job shelving books at a library and working in the office at the local pool at 14; the earliest age allowed. Before that, I was already babysitting.

Is that "child labor"? Technically in the sense of "not an adult", but calling an adolescent a child is not entirely accurate either, which is why we have the terms "juvenile" or "minor" as well. The fact that I shelved some books and sold some swimming goggles does not somehow equate to 7 year olds slaving away 16 hours a day in a sweat shop for 50 cents without basic safety regulations, but that's what Newt's opponents want to conjure up specters of when they say "child labor". There is nothing wrong with having kids clean up a school; they're the ones making the mess in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: Child Labor & Newt
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:18 am 
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Child labor ...

Oh man, way to poison the well. It was perfectly legal for me to work the tobacco farms when I was 13. It was perfectly legal for me to crop tobacco for 14 hours a day from sun-up to sun-down and get paid by weight. I did this from the first work day after school let out until the last work day before school started until I was 18. And it was perfectly legal and no one gave a rat's *** about me being a child.

When I was 16, I got a full time job at the Taco Bell across the street from my apartment (this is where I remind you I was an emancipated minor). And during the summer, I cropped tobacco and put my 40 hours a week in at Taco Bell. And I did this while going to school.

So, you know what ...

I think it's fully reasonable to expect high school students are capable of taking out the trash.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:30 am 
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I'm noticing a pattern here.

Newt is surging to the top of the polls, so all the dirt and hit pieces are starting to come out. Happend with Perry, just happend with Cain. It's almost like the MSM wants RINO Mitt to be the GOP nomination.

But as to this article...wow, make kids take care of their own school? Earn a wage? Teach responsibility? The horror!!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:44 am 
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Of course MSN, CNN, FOX, etc want Romney. The gop has been trying to get mitt in the big chair forever. The dems would welcome Romney because it would shift the discussion window to the left on so many of their goals.

Which is why he shouldn't get the nomination. But I fear its a forgone conclusion, even tho the polls arent agreeing.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:27 am 
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Rynar wrote:
I had my first job when I was 10, working in my uncle's meat market. My job was to climb underneath the industrial disply freezers and break loose all the ice, clean out the drains, and wash the coolers. Once I was done with that I would go into the walk-in freezer and clean all the machinery, the walls and floors, drain, de-ice, and clean the chicken pit, then I would do the dishes.

Looking back on the experience today, it was probably the very best thing that ever happened to me.


I agree with that.

My first "job" was prior to 9th grade, which would make me 13 years old. My dad had a car parts store/gas station. In the Summer I worked full time, M-F 7:30am-6:00pm, Saturday 7am-Noon. During school, I worked after school til closing and every Saturday.

I stocked, took inventory, ran the counter, mixed paints, cleaned both inside and outside the store, pumped gas, did oil jobs, mowed and weeded the grounds, and did maintenance on the building (paint, repair, construction). I also learned to do some of the book keeping.

Since it was my father's business, I made no wage. I got paid to do house chores in the form of a small allowance, which was done after work. I had to clean the house, bathrooms, take out the garbage, do the dishes every night, mow and rake the yards, do the laundry, and babysit my toddler brother on Friday or Saturday night. Past that, I mowed lawns for extra money, once I was old enough to "date".

Was it tough? At times. I had a job my whole life. Sometimes more than one, even while taking a full load of classes. I took 21 hours one semester while holding a 40 hour/wk job. I wouldn't change a thing about it, though. It made me a man in every sense.

/rambling off


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:30 am 
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I take comfort in the fact that all this stuff that you are hearing about the candidates is the very best the billion dollar democrat smear machine can rake up.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:27 am 
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I for one would not want to attend a school that the average teenager had "cleaned".


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:39 am 
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Nothing stopping you from cleaning it yourself and getting paid for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:24 pm 
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Sam wrote:
I wouldn't change a thing about it, though. It made me a man in every sense.

Including the sexy sense?

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:55 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
I for one would not want to attend a school that the average teenager had "cleaned".


If you just tell them "you're cleaning the school" and don't pay them, sure.

If you tell them they'll get paid if they do a good job, fired if they don't, and then demonstrate what a good job looks like they'll usually do a pretty good job.

I've learned that actually having a teenager. When you ask her to do something, you better set some standards. Otherwise you get shitty work. When you explain how you want it done, it gets done to that standard - and you get a lot less hostility than if you go back talking about what a shitty job they did and demanding they do it again when you never set any standard to begin with.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:08 pm 
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DE, you are failing to take into account the cool-factor of being the janitor at your own high school which is about -1,000,000 give or take. If it was some sort of rotational program I could also see the cool kids/bullies/haters taking a **** on the floor just to tease Jimmy Janitor about having to clean it up.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:59 pm 
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That's the sort of thing that would only happen once. There's more ways that taking a **** on the floor at school can be used to embarrass you.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:43 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
DE, you are failing to take into account the cool-factor of being the janitor at your own high school which is about -1,000,000 give or take. If it was some sort of rotational program I could also see the cool kids/bullies/haters taking a **** on the floor just to tease Jimmy Janitor about having to clean it up.


That's possible, but that has exactly zero to do with A) the child labor issue or B) whether kids will basically do good work when you give them reasonable standards. Parents can get away with not paying; schools can't.

Clearly, some sort of method of addressing bullying would need to exist, but as it is, we're not doing too good with dealing with bullying. Moreover, kids already do things like go into McDonalds and change their order over and over to **** with their classmates and the lack of cool factor of serving burgers does not stop kids who need money from taking those jobs.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:20 pm 
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It's human nature for kids to bully eachother. It seems like it would be very difficult to stop.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:38 am 
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Funny thing about "cool factor" is that having money is cool. You can talk **** for a little while, but eventually the kid you're bullying figures out you're just a broke *** with no paycheck.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:16 am 
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Corolinth wrote:
Funny thing about "cool factor" is that having money is cool. You can talk **** for a little while, but eventually the kid you're bullying figures out you're just a broke *** with no paycheck.


That, and it isn't like how "cool" you are is really some sort of sliding numerical value. If you're already the geeky kid no one can stand, not even the other relatively geeky types, you're going to find people taking a **** on the school floor if you're the clean-up guy. If you're the star linebacker, probably not. There's also the fact that it isn't going to be just one kid, or even just a few, most high schools would probably employ at least a couple dozen kids at a time in order to get things done in a reasonable time. No school is going to expect the level of effort Khross was putting into work at that age. The "uncoolness" of cleaning up is diluted a lot when there's 25 or 30 people to ostracize over it instead of 1 or 2.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:02 am 
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Nitefox wrote:
I'm noticing a pattern here. Newt is surging to the top of the polls, so all the dirt and hit pieces are starting to come out. Happend with Perry, just happend with Cain. It's almost like the MSM wants RINO Mitt to be the GOP nomination.

Hannibal wrote:
The dems would welcome Romney because it would shift the discussion window to the left on so many of their goals.

Guys, do you have any idea how much liberals/Dems/Obama would love to have Cain or Gingrich as the Republican nominee? I grant that Perry could be a threat, but Cain and Gingrich? Precisely zero chance of winning the general election.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:16 am 
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I don't think really poses much of a threat anymore after his performances.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:31 am 
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RangerDave wrote:
Nitefox wrote:
I'm noticing a pattern here. Newt is surging to the top of the polls, so all the dirt and hit pieces are starting to come out. Happend with Perry, just happend with Cain. It's almost like the MSM wants RINO Mitt to be the GOP nomination.

Hannibal wrote:
The dems would welcome Romney because it would shift the discussion window to the left on so many of their goals.

Guys, do you have any idea how much liberals/Dems/Obama would love to have Cain or Gingrich as the Republican nominee? I grant that Perry could be a threat, but Cain and Gingrich? Precisely zero chance of winning the general election.


Are you smoking crack? Perry is the only one that Obama could easily just steamroll over after some of his antics. Cain or Gingrich would be a serious threat.

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