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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:51 am 
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I see more of a situation like was in Britain against the IRA. Ever see the movie "In the name of the father" with Danial day Lewis?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:52 am 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
http://www.amazon.com/They-Thought-Were-Free-Germans/dp/0226511928

Interesting, except even in the author's review it states:

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This was true in part because all Germans already had community permission to hate Jews. The excesses, reserved mostly for Jews, thus seemed normal and in any case were always introduced in carefully orchestrated, slowly escalating, but easily digestible bites. This was done specifically to stay below the radar of the everyday German conscience -- so as to never assault German sensibilities too abruptly. Even the most alert of Germans and the least anti-Semitic Germans were lulled to sleep by this strategy.

But more importantly, because all Germans were wedded to the Nazi worldview thorough its benefits, both tangible and intangible, there were few incentives for them to "rock the boat" by pointing to its excesses. Dissension was left for victims and outsiders to engage in. However, being identified as an outsider or as a dissenter, at a minimum, could ensure social exclusion and a slow social death; and if one were very unlucky, it could mean disappearance into a concentration camp, or even a swift bullet to the temple.

Ordinary Germans thus were willing contributors to their own self-imposed trap: They needed the community's approval on its own terms. Sometimes this meant turning a blind eye to community sanctioned criminal activity, such as was the case in the event that set off a cascading sequence of pogroms against Jews, Crystal-nacht. Ordinary Germans did not want to approve of the criminal behavior involved, but was it not the community to which they were bound that decided what was criminal and who should be rewarded and punished for community-defined criminal behavior?


Are you going to argue that American society is a cohesive unit with a set of singular values and beliefs? Last I checked every person in the US is pissed at the US and its institutions for one reason or another.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:54 am 
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Nope - just pointing out how a view from inside the mainstream when reviewing the mainstream's perception isn't the clearest of pictures.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:19 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
http://www.amazon.com/They-Thought-Were-Free-Germans/dp/0226511928

Interesting, except even in the author's review it states:

Quote:
This was true in part because all Germans Americans already had community permission to hate Jews trust Government. The excesses, reserved mostly for Jews criminals, thus seemed normal and in any case were always introduced in carefully orchestrated, slowly escalating, but easily digestible bites. This was done specifically to stay below the radar of the everyday German American conscience -- so as to never assault German American sensibilities too abruptly. Even the most alert of Germans Americans and the least anti-Semitic Germans most anti-Government Americans were lulled to sleep by this strategy.

But more importantly, because all Germans Americans were wedded to the Nazi strong Federal Government worldview thorough its benefits, both tangible and intangible, there were few incentives for them to "rock the boat" by pointing to its excesses. Dissension was left for victims and outsiders to engage in. However, being identified as an outsider or as a dissenter, at a minimum, could ensure social exclusion and a slow social death; and if one were very unlucky, it could mean disappearance into a concentration camp prison, or even a swift bullet to the temple confiscation of all your assets.

Ordinary Germans Americans thus were willing contributors to their own self-imposed trap: They needed the community's approval on its own terms. Sometimes this meant turning a blind eye to community sanctioned criminal activity, such as was the case in the event that set off a cascading sequence of pogroms against Jews loss of liberties, Crystal-nacht 9-11. Ordinary Germans Americans did not want to approve of the criminal behavior involved, but was it not the community to which they were bound that decided what was criminal and who should be rewarded and punished for community-defined criminal behavior?


Are you going to argue that American society is a cohesive unit with a set of singular values and beliefs? Last I checked every person in the US is pissed at the US and its institutions for one reason or another.


Yet, few are willing to do anything about it, much like Germans in the 1930's.

Oh, and Godwin's.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:07 pm 
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Who the hell trusts the government? Even the left has abandoned that concept (see #Occupy)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:20 pm 
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I'm thinking that there are a lot of people who trust the Gov't. in the name of "safety". Enough so that they are willing to subject themselves to random groping, unknown levels of radiation and standing with their hands over their heads like a criminal while getting their picture taken.

Last I heard it was "Occupy Wall Street" not "Occupy Pennsylvania Avenue".

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:22 pm 
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Vindicarre wrote:
Last I heard it was "Occupy Wall Street" not "Occupy Pennsylvania Avenue".


http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/ ... mas-visit/

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:25 pm 
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And yet, even those mighty 100 protesters still felt the need to link him to corporations and the rich in order to vent their ire...

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:51 pm 
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I still maintain that the way rights are violated today is a vast improvement over how it used to work. At least in the 21st century the government had to pass a bill making wiretapping legal before they engaged in wiretapping, opening the wiretapping up to public scrutiny. This is much better than how it worked from the 50s to the 80s, where the FBI just wiretapped whoever the hell they wanted whenever they wanted anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:45 pm 
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Vindicarre wrote:
And yet, even those mighty 100 protesters still felt the need to link him to corporations and the rich in order to vent their ire...

That doesn't dissuade from the fact that people who trust the government are in the minority. Even to your point above just because most people can't bothered to act and instead just ***** doesn't mean they are happy with the TSA.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:51 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:56 pm 
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In looking at that picture, I realize now that Wall-E was just stealth propoganda to get us to accept and love security cameras! #tinfoilhat

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:10 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
And yet, even those mighty 100 protesters still felt the need to link him to corporations and the rich in order to vent their ire...

That doesn't dissuade from the fact that people who trust the government are in the minority. Even to your point above just because most people can't bothered to act and instead just ***** doesn't mean they are happy with the TSA.



Sadly, I really think that most people who are unhappy with the TSA are unhappy because of the inconvenience. If the TSA agents took people into a separate room and did whatever they wanted to "other" people, it would be ok, just as long as it didn't inconvenience them.

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