The Glade 4.0

No, I really don't understand how substantial psychological trauma can be inflicted through theft of small amounts of money or property. I've had things worth more than $50 stolen from me, it doesn't keep me awake at night fearing for my life.

... really?

Oh, come on, when someone's house is broken into, they never have fears that the thief will come back, that's just silliness.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

I have to ask you guys something, if it wasn't for distrust of the government to not use it as a tool of oppression, would you be in favor of the death penalty for all felonies? Because I'm not seeing a whole lot of difference.

Actually that one I will support. Statistically speaking the odds of a home-invasion (or b&e) are already low. The odds of it happening multiple times would probably be on par with getting eaten by a shark who is being struck by lightning.

If not then you should probably move.

_________________

Nope. I think felons should be rehabilitated and then let back into the public. The difference is that killing someone in the act of committing a felony against you is self defense, while the death penalty is a punishment.

That's not true at all. If someone breaks into your house then there is a much higher chance it will happen again.

What happens statistically and what people fear are often vastly different things. Take for example oh, child abductions, or terrorist acts.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Yeah that is kind of my point, people worry about all the wrong things. They fear child abductions but don't finish a full cycle of antibiotics. They worry about getting carjacked and then go eat McDonald's every day. They are terrified of being eaten by sharks but will happily sit in the sun for 3 hours a day all summer long and go tanning in the winter.

_________________

My point is that the threat doesn't even have to be realistic in order to inflict psychological trauma.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

I'd also suggest moving rather than getting eaten by a shark who is being struck by lightning.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Xequecal, is it okay to kill someone who is trying to break your finger?

Damn right.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Yes it is, what is your point? This is a personal safety issue, not a property one.

Good point.

_________________

But it's only your finger. It's not like your whole arm, or even a rib.

_________________

Hell they won't even cast it. A splint and some tape and youre on your way! I think Xeq is still mixing up theft and robbery however.

_________________
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

Please tell me you're not equating having a bone broken to small property crimes.

Why not? It's only a small bone.

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Nope.

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

I'm with Rori on this... but likely for different reasons.

"Felony" is too broad a descriptor. A 17yo boy having a naked pic of his 17yo GF on his phone is a felon. A dude that has a little too much pot in his pocket is a felon.

What passes for "felony" in this country is distressing.

However, rapists and murderers and **** like that? Juice em.

_________________

Holy shitsnacks!

http://www.self-defender.net/law3.htm

I couldn't find the issues you were talking about with the $50 dollar limit. Theft at night or robbery yeah, but not everything you are talking about. Also there are a list of exceptions and the like too. Also apparently to defend the property of others there are limits too. So it's possible that someone could claim self defense over the reasons your stating, but that's why we have courts to figure out if the circumstances were warranted in that case. Yeah I think its stupid to shoot someone for dine and dashing.

Also you have to have "reasonable belief" (which is defined)"That the property could not be protected from arson theft by night robbery or criminal mischief at nighttime "by any other means"

Also the Moose makes good points about the definition of Felon, but that wasn't factoring into my thinking. I'm more into Life for Life on a criminal justice basis. Certain sexual assaults could be as bad as killing someone, but that's too much the slope for me. When it comes to preventing harm to persons I think a case by case system works best. Generally speaking though I get the whole shoot the shadowy figure crawling around at night where my children sleep first and ask questions later mindset, but I don't extend that to broad daylight trespassing (though turning them around at gun point is alright)

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/28.03.00.html

Note that the cutoff between Class C and Class B criminal mischief is $50. It's not stated in your link but I have read that deadly force is allowed for Class B and up but not Class C. If we go by what it says in your link and my link only then deadly force is actually allowed by any dollar amount, you can steal one cent and they are allowed to shoot you.

Note at your link that using deadly force to protect property alone is explicitly allowed even if there is no danger to life or health.



"Cannot be recovered by any other means" is not a large caveat. I assume they don't include "call the police and hope they can catch the guy and retrieve it" under that. How else are you going to recover your property if it's been grabbed by a stranger who is fleeing?

Fair enough. Like I said in my edit above, I'm not as gung ho about life for property as other folks. I'd rather brandish- saying "stop" while carrying a weapon. (which I think is still a degree of deadly force) and accept surrender in all but the most invasive of circumstances (again see edit above)

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

How about a 12-year old that swipes a candy bar from a convenience store and runs just to prove that he can? That's not a victimless crime like the sexting or drug use, but under the insane sensibilities some people here have, the store owner should be able to waste this kid and feel good about it.