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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:21 pm 
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So my current girlfriend doesn't live near me so we Skype a lot, the problem is I have Comcast (who sucks ***) and they have their stupid 250GB bandwidth per month cap. Well last month I hit 285GB due to Skyping so I wanted to see if anyone knows of any way to limit the amount of bandwidth Skype use (specifically downloads cause Comcast's uploads speeds are crap anyways, my phone has 6x the upload speeds) so that I can keep my bandwidth from going over the cap again without having to limit the amount of time I can talk on Skype.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:23 pm 
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I don't know of any way. Skype on your phone? Otherwise, pay a bit extra like I do and get Comcast's business plan, which has no data limit.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:43 pm 
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Are you video conferencing, or just making a voice call? Because with just a voice call, using the G.711 codec, you should only be looking at 64kbps usage.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:44 pm 
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You may be able to throttle the program's bandwidth in your router settings.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:47 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
You may be able to throttle the program's bandwidth in your router settings.

This. Check to see if your router is capable of QoS configuration, and you should be able to manage it that way.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:59 pm 
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Use a different webcam service that doesn't take as much bandwidth.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:57 am 
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FarSky wrote:
I don't know of any way. Skype on your phone? Otherwise, pay a bit extra like I do and get Comcast's business plan, which has no data limit.


Phone wouldn't help much seeing as my phone actually has a higher res front cam than my laptop's webcam. I think it would end up being quite a bit more sadly compared with the bundled plan I have currently which is only $99 for internet, HD cable w/hd box and phone.

shuyung wrote:
Are you video conferencing, or just making a voice call? Because with just a voice call, using the G.711 codec, you should only be looking at 64kbps usage.


Video chat, when we're just doing voice we use our cells since we're both on the same carrier so unlimited mins.

Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Lenas wrote:
You may be able to throttle the program's bandwidth in your router settings.

This. Check to see if your router is capable of QoS configuration, and you should be able to manage it that way.


I'll look, i'm not sure though, I have a Linksys WRT400N router which is one of the cisco ones.

Lex Luthor wrote:
Use a different webcam service that doesn't take as much bandwidth.


You wouldn't happen to know which ones are more bandwidth friendly would you? Skype is actually the only one I've ever used so not really familiar with any others.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:59 am 
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I don't know if QoS will reduce the usage at all. It'll throttle it to reduce the impact of other traffic, but the app sends whatever number of bits it needs to send to reproduce audio on the other end.

I never worked with skype, but I'd look in the prefs to see if you can change the audio line quality setting, perhaps change the sample rate.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:41 pm 
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Taskiss wrote:
I don't know if QoS will reduce the usage at all. It'll throttle it to reduce the impact of other traffic, but the app sends whatever number of bits it needs to send to reproduce audio on the other end.

I never worked with skype, but I'd look in the prefs to see if you can change the audio line quality setting, perhaps change the sample rate.

Depends on the QoS engine. I know that I can manually throttle my upload on my router as part of the QoS configuration. If you did this at both ends, you'd control the Skype-related bandwidth consumption. Doing this only on Sasandra's side will not keep her under her download cap, though.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:45 pm 
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Wouldn't that just throttle the bytes per second but not change the total number of bytes?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:47 pm 
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No. Skype will adjust its streaming quality based on the available bandwidth. Bigger pipe, more data per second to get a better picture. It thinks its being helpful. As more ISPs introduce caps, though, I'm sure Skype will add a manual quality control.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:48 pm 
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Ah. I see.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:48 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
As more ISPs introduce caps,

For the consumer!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:50 pm 
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Heheh, yeah, Farsky. It'd be interesting to pick Shuyung's brain sometime if he weren't, as I assume him to be, constrained by NDA/confidentiality stuff about his job.

I'd be curious to see how much and where the big guys are spending money on infrastructure, if that's info he has access to.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:52 pm 
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Theoretically, it may be possible to--instead of throttling Skype--manipulate your camera settings to use a more compressed video codec. Or, you know, knock it off with all the video chatting.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:04 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Heheh, yeah, Farsky. It'd be interesting to pick Shuyung's brain sometime if he weren't, as I assume him to be, constrained by NDA/confidentiality stuff about his job.

I'd be curious to see how much and where the big guys are spending money on infrastructure, if that's info he has access to.

Well, right at the moment, everybody is getting ready for the general availability of 100G linecards and optics slated for next year.

However, although I do have to take care in what I say, this doesn't mean I have to remain mute. A lot of information is public, although not common, knowledge. What are you wanting to know? The largest circuit bundles I am aware of (as of early October), are 40x10G (a LAG of 400G total bandwidth, minus a bit of overhead). Both Comcast and NTT have publicly mentioned circuit sizes that large. However, that sort of thing is rare, and arguably poor engineering. Since, if you actually have to haul that much traffic from one router to another, you've done something wrong. Or at least, you're not doing it right.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:08 pm 
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shuyung wrote:
Theoretically, it may be possible to--instead of throttling Skype--manipulate your camera settings to use a more compressed video codec. Or, you know, knock it off with all the video chatting.


Not sure what she had on her end for camera settings, though I know she uses an external Logitech camera.

Not video chatting it's going to happen since she lives 500 miles away, and not seeing each other between visits flying back and forth would suck, really it's stuff like video chat that makes long distance relationships viable IMO. Really it wouldn't even be a problem if Comcast weren't complete douchebags and not only imposed these stupid caps in a time where internet is becoming more and more a part of daily life but also did everything they could to cockblock Verizon from bringing FiOS (who has no bandwidth caps) into my town, so I don't even have another high speed internet option. And I use the term high speed internet loosely since my cell phone has higher download speeds and significantly higher upload speeds than what I get thru Comcast.Honestly if cell phones didn't have the even lower caps I would ditch wired internet all together and use my Cell for everything.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:10 pm 
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Mostly, Shuyung, I'm curious how the non-last mile stuff has been scaling with the advancements and improvements in offerings for last mile. Sure, AT&T and Verizon are rolling out FiOS and U-Verse for crazy high advertised bandwidth, but with ISPs trying to talk about bandwidth caps for monthly consumption, it makes me wonder if that's really an indicator that they're pushing out fast capacity to the last mile so they can sound good, while neglecting to scale up the long-haul infrastructure to match the increases in potential demand those last mile improvements can cause.

Since I'm mostly looking at this from an interested consumer perspective, rather than somebody who knows details of the hardware and internal dealings, that's probably the level of depth that's practical, I guess, since my objective isn't necessarily to force you to guide me through a lot of catch-up work in those areas so I can follow more detail.

Alternately, if you could point me to some public resources that are already available that would go into some of these things I'm more deficient in, I wouldn't mind looking. I mean, I've got a knowledge level somewhere between CCNA and CCNP, but I don't deal with any of this stuff professionally, so when you start talking specific hardware, it's typically Greek to me, despite my interest.

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"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:44 pm 
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From my observations, it's not the backbones that lag behind, but the interconnections. ATT and Verizon wouldn't need to cap bandwidth if customers were entirely contained by the network. For instance, if you were a U-Verse customer, only utilizing ATT services (phone to other ATT subscribers, video only from ATT, data usage only with other ATT customers), you would not impact the network much at all. Except for long distance calling, most other service consumption would be nearby. There would be the occasional outlier, much like long distance calling, perhaps data transfer with someone cross-country, but the bulk of your usage would be contained. And thus more easily provided for. However, when services are used that require another network to provide, you start to encounter tension. Bear in mind, not all networks. Google, for instance, is fairly ubiquitous (and YouTube, by the same token). Google has relationships with all of the major carriers. They've emplaced their data-centers-in-a-box all over the place, and so most Google data is fairly close, no matter where you are. Others, not so much. Akamai, for example, has no direct relation of any sort with ATT (and, by extension, the old SBC and BellSouth networks). Caveat: Anecdotal evidence only, from speaking with Akamai people. This means any data an ATT user retrieves from an Akamai cache is causing pain to ATT, because it has to traverse peering. Now Akamai is pretty savvy, and they try their best to deliver the content from the closest source to the destination that they can, they run analytics all the time to make sure they're doing that. Others ... again, not so much. So there's a whole hierarchy of well-funded, well-peered entities all the way down to the individual user. And as you step down the pyramid, you become less and less able to solve for x, where x is efficiency (and thus, profit). So consequently as you step down the pyramid, in order to preserve profit, bit costs should increase. ATT pays the least per bit to deliver to their users, anyone with whom ATT has diverse settlement-free peering with pays the second least, and so on down the line. Bear in mind, at this point we're still only talking about content to consumer. Ideally, there would be an obvious demarcation between producer and consumer. Sadly, this is not the case. Comcast, as an example, is both. They have their own content, they have their own eyeballs, but they want to make their content available to everyone, and their eyeballs want content from everywhere. Add to this it's almost impossible to gauge what effect a direct relationship with Comcast is going to do to a network, and other providers shy away from doing so, unless large amounts of money change hands, which is a problem Comcast faces. They're not as well-connected as they need to be to provide the service they purport to sell, and thus the bandwidth caps.

But back to bit costs. There is a cost to move one bit. This cost is almost identical to the cost to move a million bits. So if we stipulate that the producers pay more per bit as they move less bits, it can be easy to see that a consumer pays less per bit as they consume more bits. Not only that, but there comes a point where a consumer begins paying negative amounts per bit. And an unwanted side effect is that those consumers degrade the experience of the people paying positive costs per bit. So for those users who pay negative amounts per bit, what do we do with them? Well, we can either tell them that they're not allowed to consume enough bits to be paying negative amounts per bit, or we can tell them that they can pay a positive amount per bit. And also just to drop them as subscribers, but that's fairly rare. Of the available options, apparently the least offensive is to tell a consumer that they're not allowed to consume enough bits to pay negative costs per bit. I say apparently because I haven't gone around doing the research myself. I hope that somebody has somewhere. I'm not too convinced of that, but I hope so. What is not an option (working only from empirical evidence) is telling consumers that they can't have the capacity to consume enough bits to pay negative costs per bit. Probably because that would take consensus, which certain entities like to call collusion and put people in jail for.

Offerings for the last mile, the consumer, are also problematic in that they're not, by-and-large, bandwidth conscientious. The prevailing theory is that bandwidth is cheap. And in some parts of the network, it is (relatively) cheap. But that's not the part of the network where it needs to be. When you find a bottleneck, it's very seldom on the backbone. Occasionally you'll see one, they're most prevalent during backhoe season, and they tend to be fairly transient. Most bottlenecks occur, though, either at the peering edge, or the customer edge. Bottlenecks at the peering edge can be dealt with more simply. Traffic can be rerouted, the peering can be augmented (this can take a while, but is generally fairly quick, as peering is watched closely and most augments are already in process by the time things get saturated, but humans are involved so sometimes things slip a bit too far), and maybe it's due to bad traffic and that can get resolved. Bottlenecks close to the customer are problems. As you get nearer the customer, and especially the residential customer, hardware age starts going up, and your options beyond a complete upgrade are extremely limited. Wholesale platform migrations take a long time, and often a platform just gets capped, a new platform put in place, and customer churn is relied on to solve the problem. Of course that doesn't always work. And sometimes a new platform just comes with its own intrinsic problems. And if you're putting in a new platform in one place, you probably need to do it all over, and that takes some grip. Which subtracts from the money you have available to perform needed expenditures elsewhere. Cash rules everything around me. Cream. Get the money. Dollar dollar bill, y'all.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:44 am 
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Right, I should have differentiated between in-network backbones and interconnections between the ISPs.

That's actually very interesting about Google; I had assumed that they had service relationships with multiple ISPs, but it had never occurred to me that they would have more than 2 or 3 datacenters.

That's also a very interesting angle with Comcast, that I had never considered as a factor. So, really, the cable companies' fingers in content pies from the 90's is, in a way, biting them in the *** as they have moved into non-closed content distribution with their internet service offerings. Interesting.

So, yeah, thanks for that post. =)

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