The Glade 4.0

Foamy, was this dead cop a relative or your BFF?

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Yeah, ok, whatever.

You have repeatedly shooshed away just about everything I have said and every stance I take on this. Almost as if my opinion is less than yours. Rynar and Khross did exactly the same thing. I have had enough.

I just don't hate cops enough to have any sort of reasonable discourse with the lot of you.

So instead of all your snarky little comments "Oh, Foamy doesn't know what he's talking about, lets just belittle any opinions he has", how about an intelligent conversation. I try, I get snark in return because I am not anti-establishment enough.

I've had it. I've wasted my time coming here. I don't need to be here and I am going to try very hard to stop bothering to post anything as I have gained very little here, save for the friendship of a few people who I have never met, for such a large investment of time.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

No I haven't. I have disagreed with some of your statements. That is not "shooshing" them away it is disagreeing.

This is what disagreement looks like - from your actions I don't know if you've ever seen it before.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Foamy:

I think you're reading a different thread than anyone else. I took and take issue with the use of the word premeditated to prejudice opinions about a crime. I've never said Mumia didn't kill Faulker; I only agreed with Corolinth's observation that people convicted of killing police officers don't get fair trials.

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Foamy is currently demonstrating why that is the case. He would've been a little kid when Faulkner died. He wasn't around when it happened. He didn't see it. It's like me and the OJ trial. I was thirteen. What the **** did I know about OJ? He played football, retired before I was born, and was named after orange juice. That's everything I knew about OJ back then.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

I'm not - especially not for your reason. Your reason can apply to any punishment.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Don't be obtuse. The reasoning is, that death is permanent, where as wrongful imprisonment can be undone, and lost time compensated for (to a degree). Unless you have the ability to resurect, and make whole the families you have destroyed, you above statement makes you nothing short of a **** moron.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

See, now that is disdain.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

I'm not being obtuse at all. Yes, death is permanent, but so is imprisonment, in the sense that time lost is permanently gone; you can't restore it.

Yes, you can compensate for lost time, and the distinction is not entirely arbitrary, but the fact is that any punishment can be abused, and the distinction of death is not strong enough to matter IMO. There's no reason that there shouldn't be a death penalty, especially not this "giving the government the ability to kill it's citizens" nonsense, especially in a system like ours. The government doesn't have the ability to kill it's citizens; it has the ability to carry out a death sentence imposed by other citizens. Even if the judge could impose it himself, that would be fine.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Not really. That's Rynar trying to pretend he's being disdainful, when in fact he's just pretending you said something other than what you said. You said the government could use the death penalty in ways that aren't conducive to freedom. All Rynar did was move the goalposts to "it's also permanent". In this case you've articulated what he said yourself in the past and I happen to remember it, so the goalpost moving is minimal, but either way the fact is that any punishment can be mmisused by the government, and while time lost can be compensated it cannot be restored. Drawing the line at death is, while not totally arbitrary, at the very least highly subjective.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

The concept of using any sort of punishment is completely subjective, so let's not make that the basis of the discussion, else we've rendered it meaningless.

The point is that until your last post you equated all types of punishment, refusing to acknowledge the difference between the permanence of death and the ability to compensate someone and offer the living redemption of having their name cleared and being reunited with their family and society.

The fact that you can't see that clear difference, and attribute any meaning to it speaks volumes.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Gee.. as if pointing out that something is subjective hasn't been done over and over AND OVER again around here over the years.. and it's a problem now? Talya is drawing a subjective line at death.. not entirely without reason, but subjective nonetheless; the same problem she pointed out of possible misuse applies on both sides of that line.



"Until my last post" I'd made all of two posts on the topic in this thread, so I don't know where you get that idea from. I was not "equating" themn at all; I pointed out that the cricticism Talya made in this thread applied to all punishments. I didn't say that the consequence of that was equally severe in all cases. I did not "Refuse to acknowledge" anything.



The fact that you can't read an argument and parse it properly speaks volumes more. Try filtering people's arguments through your reading comprehension first, then you can apply the ideology. You won't sound so ridiculous.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

The difference between dad and alive is subjective only in the same way as the existence of the flying spaghetti monster is 'subjective'.

The difference between free and imprisoned is also clear.

Imprisoned and alive as a state and 'dead' is also clear.

It doesn't seem like a continuum to me.

I think the difference between "dad" and alive is a size thirteen shoe up your *** for punishment vs. being alive in prison for punishment.

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"None is more important, none more legitimate, than that of rendering the people safe as they are the
ultimate guardians of their own liberty."- Thomas Jefferson

"Yeah, I'm rehearsing my poker face. I don't handle stupid well. *sigh*" - Farsky

Oops and I though iPad keyboarding was fine

Hmmm. iPad keyboarding? Is that anything like waterboarding?

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

I didn't say that the difference between dead and alive was subjective. What's subjective is the difference in the amount of your life that's taken away from you via imprisonment versus via death. If you're imprisoned for life, the answer is still "all of it". Granted, you get to be alive for those years, but instead of being dead you get to sit inside the same four concrete walls, eat the same crappy food, maybe exercise, watch TV or play a little chess, and try to avoid getting ass-raped or otherwise brutalized. Especially given the last, prison is arguably worse than death for some people.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Yeah but it's the person reading it that gets tortured.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

He's addressing the first part of my statement, about the law often convicting innocent people. It's less relevant to my issues with how a government chooses to use the death penalty.

See, it's about how much power over yourself you're willing to give government. Governments need to be kept small, with very limited power. Giving a government the power to execute its citizens is a dangerous step, and ultimately the most strengthening power you can give it. I don't think this is wise, for anyone who loves freedom.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

From a government-power perspective, there's no functional difference between being able to lock someone up and executing them. Both remove the troubling presence adequately.

In fact, being able to detain citizens is far worse, since the public will tolerate this for lesser crimes.

Kind of an odd assertion to make, given the subject of this thread.

Accurate though.

Your freedom can be curtailed for the rest of your life in either case.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Except "the troubling presence", in this case, is still making radio appearances and getting international recognition. I don't think the powers that be would consider that adequate if their aim was to "remove the troubling presence".

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Agreed, it seems that the government-power perspective isn't what folks imagine it is.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Not sure what the "government-power perspective" is.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko