The Glade 4.0

Pfft, whatever. We all know that professors are just the type of hippie liberals who would obviously have a huge bias.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Incidentally, am I the only one who sees the thread title and immediately thinks: "consequences will never be the same"?

So ... what? Odds of 100 to 1 perhaps?

They used non-lethal force and didn't touch the protesters. I think you're getting wrapped around the axle with the pepper spray, which I know from personal exposure is uncomfortable, but the effects are gone in a shorter period of time than anything else the cops might have done.

Reason didn't work - that was plan A.

The protesters were the reason that plan B was implemented.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Surrounding people and not permitting them to leave is both a threat, and force, even if the people aren't actually being "violent" (i.e. attacking anyone). If you were in the middle of a bunch of people that were essentially telling you "you're a hostage to our demands" (in this case, free the arrestees before we let you leave) you'd feel threatened to.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

While it's a good point that transportation or access is not more important than demonstration, the "blocking traffic" argument does not presuppose that at all, because a demonstration does not have to block traffic. Some people like to claim that if a protest can't inconvenience anyone, it can't be as effective and can't get as much attention but that argument doesn't matter either because the right to protest does not translate to a right to garner a certain amount of attention in the process.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Again ...

1. UC San Diego brought in the San Diego Police Department to remove the "camping" students.

2. The video in the OP is admittedly edited by the biased individual that posted it. Now, he says he's removing edits, but he strung a whole bunch of film from different sources together in "chronological order", added his commentary, and you guys are giving it credence.

3. Every act of violence on even that biased film was initiated and perpetrated by the police officers.

Stupid protesters are stupid, but that doesn't excuse cops from being stupid.

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They weren't surrounding; they weren't being held against their will ...

The police officers were free to leave at any time, and even the horribly biased OP video demonstrates that police officers had more than enough time to leave after serving the notices they were there to serve. The police waited for a confrontation and escalated it themselves.

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No, this is not what is going on. There is nothing involving any "squelching of a protest" going on. The laws are not "conflicting" in any way. A guarantee of a right to assemble does not guarantee the use of any particular place for that purpose, nor does it allow you to obstruct traffic, erect tents, or otherwise demand anything of those around you.



In other words, you simply do not care about facts or law, and want to complain about the police.

The Constitutional right to assembly is not at issue here. The protest was not ended or dispersed, nor was that the reason arrests were made.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Simple hands-on techniques do not work very well for arresting protestors who are passively resisting because there are a lot of them and they tend to link arms making it hard to do so. You're basing this claim on nothing more than your intuitive idea of what is the "minimum" needed.



Yes, as a matter of fact it DOES include use of those tools because of the resistance of the protestors and the unsuitability of lesser means. Again, you simply don't know what levels of force are needed to safely effect an arrest and are making this proclamation based on nothing more than your personal intuition that it's somehow not "minimal."

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

And you still need to address the fact that a State-level police agency ceded jurisdiction because there wasn't a crime for which they could arrest the students or break up the protest.

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Pain compliance techniques are things like pressure points. Pepper spray isn't one.

More importantly, what paddy wagon? All I saw was a single cruiser at the very end. It's also very hard to pick up individual people and carry them away when they link arms or curl up in a ball, as those protestors were doing. It can take as many as four officers, and not only would those officers be exposed to attack, moving through the protestors surrounding them, the people they'd need to pick up and move to a vehicle were the ones blocking their way in the first place.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

...

You apparently don't know much about pepper spray.

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This is absolutely hilarious. While it's quite true that video was edited, it comes nowhere near the level of bias in the other videos of the incident, and this is the first one I've ever seen that the maker actually provides links to other videos than his own in. Yes, he's selecting the ones he wants to promote, but aside from a totally unedited video, this is one of the few with any sort of commentary at all that we've ever seen here that wasn't clearly selecting what it wanted to show. The only thing that was biased was the presence of the commentary, and that, in fact, was not nearly as inflammatory, nor did it play fast and loose with what was on the screen as many others/

As for them being surrounded, they absolutely were. It is exceedingly clear from the video that after they made their arrests, the students surrounded them.

As for this crap about the local police versus the state police, it means no such thing. A local ordinance is an enforceable law. It is not "fishing" at all just because you don't want them arrested, and here's a clue: Even if the local agency takes the lead, the state police can assist in the actual conduct of the arrests and action just as in any other case to provide manpower. There's nothing to address here, and no one is failing to address it. That's just "fishing" for an issue.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I know a great deal about pepper spray. I also know that a "pain compliance technique" means a hands-on pressure point. It's a very specific term. Pepper spray is clearly painful, but that doesn't make it a "pain compliance technique" any more than a gun is a "pain compliance technique".

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Pepper spray produces compliance by inducing pain and discomfort; that is its entire purpose.

And, no, they weren't surrounded at any point in that video. They weren't surrounded at any point in actuality either, according to the witnesses I know on that campus. You have camera angles and edits choses to suggest the police were surrounded, but that's kind of obviated by the fact that ...

1. The Pepper Spraying takes place outside the circle of students being sprayed.

2. The police moved freely anywhere they wanted for the duration of the events.

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Ohhhh that's why they did it. Khross seriously you're really displaying this boner you've got for DE as of late.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

Hardly.



Irrelevant; they were still being prevented from going about their business



The fact that the cops have to stand there at all rather than going about their business indicates that the use of pepper spray was justified. It is not ok to prevent someone from going about their business just because you aren't assaulting them in the process. If the police had turned dogs or guns, or even batons on the students, that would have been excessive, but pepper spray was the completely correct action.



The ones that already had been sprayed?

You keep focusing on this "threat" thing as if that's what dictates the acceptability of pepper spray. It is not the only acceptable reason to use it. Gaining compliance after lesser means had failed makes it acceptable. The police do not have to sit there indefinitely waiting for the students to comply just because the students are not assaulting them.



This, right here, indicates you have no business whatsoever discussing this issue. The cops were heavily outnumbered. That's an exceedingly dangerous situation, and the demeanor of a crowd can change very rapidly.

All you're doing is looking at surface appearances "Oh my, look, helmets and batons!" and using that as a basis to make completely arbitrary proclamations about how "if they couldn't handle it without pepper spray they shouldn't have a badge!"

What the hell do you know about it? How many police in riot gear does it take to handle how many college kids in your mind? What's your basis for that threshold? What past events, experiences, and analysis are you basing it on? None, right? I didn't think so. It's based completely on this intuition you have.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Current president with the 9th court of appeals defines pepper spray as a pain compliance technique.

Headwaters v. County of Humboldt, (9th Cir. No. 98-17250, 2000

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

That's quite true. Does not change the fact that "pain compliance technique" is not the category they fall into. Don't know why you're making a big deal of terminology.



I see no reason to think either of your above "facts" are accurate. I really don't care what your professor friends say. It's very convenient that you seem to have them, and they just happened to be present.

Thanks for your attempts to tell us we can't judge the evidence for ourselves, however. Move along, citizen, nothing to see here. Pay no atention to the video, do not question the complaints about police behavior. After all, they would not be wearing uniforms if they were not Class Enemies.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

The funny thing is, we all know you said this with a straight face.

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Actually, I was chuckling quite loudly. After all, I got to beat everyone else to the punch in regard to the use of this sort of technique to score points for once.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Except, you're supposed snark is exactly what you're posting in this thread; it's exactly what you post in every thread where someone questions a use of police power.

I didn't complain when the people in NYC were arrested, pepper-sprayed, detained, dispersed, etc. I didn't give a **** a when they busted up Occupy Boston and Occupy Chicago. The protest in that video, however; stupid cops did stupid things to stupid people. There's a whole lot of stupid going on; there's just not this particular stupid everyone seems to think absolves the police officers of their own stupid.

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Hardly. What I do is question the questioning. That's exactly what's going on here, the only difference is that all of a sudden the video is wrong because it's not one claiming to impeach the police. It's a typical double-standard; if DE questions a video, or otherwise points out problems with criticism of the polcie its perfectly ok to simply handwave it aside, but now that we have video that doesn't seem to show any police misconduct (and I did acknowledge that it is edited and biased at least to some degree, so don't even go there) all of a sudden we're supposed to just disregard it because of what you say four unspecified witnesses told you.

It's another example of people wanting to watch the watchers, but not to have their watching of the watchers itself be watched.



The police officers were not being stupid and the stupid you claim isn't going on very clearly is going on. That's what I see. Are there things that we can't see? Yes, there are, but your idea of what happened is disproved by the actions of the protestors themselves. If the police could have just left by another route, why were the protestors talking about letting them leave? They just failed to notice a huge hole in their circle that a few dozen cops could simply walk through?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Diamondeye:

No, you're defending the cops. You don't question people's criticisms; you refuse to accept that cops do stupid things. If Glade 2.0 was around, we could show you a 14 page thread of you continually defending 4 Atlanta Cops for shooting an 87 year old woman ...

And in case you never followed up on that incident, all four of those police officers are now serving time.

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Duh. Obviously if some people are attacking the cops, questioning their criticisms is defending the cops.



Utterly false.



Yes, yes, let's simplify 14 pages down to one sentence. I bet that it was simply a matter of 4 atlanta cops shooting an 87 year old woman with no other facts whatsoever!



That's nice. That doesn't mean that the facts available at the time supported the conclusions that were being drawn by anyone here. I also don't see what it has to do with anything, other than your simple inability to have anyone contradict you. This is just another distraction technique on your part.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."