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 Post subject: Data is... wrong!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:52 pm 
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Data are ****, and don't put periods in your captions! Oh, and don't make the actual figures a caption style, or it explodifies my table of contents!

County is capitalized if your talking about a specific one, and why are you capitalizing every use of the word "study"?

Reviewing this report was supposed to take me an hour, but it's taking forever because I have to fix dumb crap.

Never let an engineer write.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:20 pm 
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Those **** data. I hate them.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:24 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Those **** data. I hate them.


LOL

At least you didn't say "I hate it". Then I'd have to track you down.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:21 pm 
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Well, there was no punctuation to suggest that "Data are" was to be taken as a separate thought, rather than the "are" acting as a linking verb between "Data" and "****."

So, yeah, I guess you shouldn't let an engineer write. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:22 pm 
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Isn't Data that gay robot that's always making out with C-3PO?

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 Post subject: Re: Data is... wrong!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:46 pm 
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Nah, I'm pretty sure that's Dracula.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:22 am 
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Data is singular in my language, I don't know about yours.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:28 am 
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Datum is singular, data is plural.

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 Post subject: Re: Data is... wrong!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:38 am 
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http://www2.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF3/334.html

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Unlike the laws of science, the laws of language are often subject to the will of the people. And while we cannot change carefully tested scientific truths to fit the fashion, grammarian's rules, when they no longer serve clarity or naturalness of expression, we can throw out the window.

Curiously, scientific writing often contains a mixture of wild experimentation with language and strict adherence to aging rules of usage. New words are often coined recklessly by compounding ordinary words or fragments into technical monsters or awkward hybrids. (A paper was once written about "geochronobioclimatopaleomagnetostratigraphy".) But one rule of usage is dear to every technical writer; it concerns the use of the word data.

Did you know that it is correct to say "The data have reached my desk," and "The data are conclusive," but wrong to say "The data has...," "The data is..."? A Latin word, data is the plural form of datum and therefore requires a plural verb.

Nevertheless, many people feel the word has been Americanized, that it now refers to a collective unit, and takes a singular verb. In fact, of the 136 distinguished consultants on usage polled for the 1975 Harper Dictionary of Contemporary Usage, 49% responded that they use "The data is..." in writing. And in casual speech, 65% use data as singular. Those who defend "The data is..." often point to the fact that agenda is also, strictly, a plural, but is nearly always regarded as a single list and takes a singular verb. You'll probably never hear anyone ask: "Are the agenda interesting?

Still, science is a special case; the international transfer of information is vital. Nearly every technical paper will be read by people for whom English is not the primary language, and communication is not served by constant experimentation.

So, on the issue of data in modern American usage, you might say "The data is mixed". But as for consistency in scientific writing, the data are strongly behind it.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:19 am 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Those **** data. I hate them.


****ing data, how do they work?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:46 am 
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Experiments go in, data come out. Never a miscommunication.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:02 pm 
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Mook:

Interesting write-up, thanks. Oddly enough, I do say "agenda are...". Sadly, however, the sentence nearly always ends with something other than "interesting".


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 Post subject: Re: Data is... wrong!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:39 pm 
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I think the use of "data" as a singular, collective noun mostly stems from the fact that its singular form ("datum") is a nearly useless word. The word "data" has been thoroughly bound to the context of statistics and its applications: science, engineering, economics, etc. These are fields which generally discourage using single points of data or even small sets of data. As a matter of course, people work with a plurality of data almost exclusively. It's rare that person needs to refer to a single datum at all. In that rare case, phrases like "point of data" or "piece of data" suffice.

To make matters worse, in many if not most cases it isn't even very clear exactly what constitutes a single "datum". Case in point, the first thing that pops into my head when you say "datum" is the North American Vertical Datum of 1988
http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/datum_options.html
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The National Geodetic Survey (NGS) defines a geodetic datum as: 1. "A set of constants used for calculating the coordinates of points on the Earth." Generally a datum is a reference from which measurements are made. In surveying and geodesy, a datum is a reference point on the earth's surface against which position measurements are made, and an associated model of the shape of the earth for computing positions. Horizontal datums are used for describing a point on the earth's surface, in latitude and longitude. Vertical datums are used to measure elevations or underwater depths.

North American Vertical Datum of 1988 (NAVD 88)
A fixed reference for elevations determined by geodetic leveling. The datum was derived from a general adjustment of the first-order terrestrial leveling nets of the United States, Canada, and Mexico. In the adjustment, only the height of the primary tidal bench mark, referenced to the International Great Lakes Datum of 1985 (IGLD 85) local mean sea level height value, at Father Point, Rimouski, Quebec, Canada was held fixed, thus providing minimum constraint. NAVD 88 and IGLD 85 are identical. However, NAVD 88 bench mark values are given in Helmert orthometric height units while IGLD 85 values are in dynamic heights. See International Great Lakes Datum of 1985, National Geodetic Vertical Datum of 1929, and geopotential difference. NAVD 88 should not be used as Mean Sea Level.

A "datum" is a "set of constants" derived from "terrestrial leveling nets"? Yeah...

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 Post subject: Re: Data is... wrong!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:44 am 
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Stathol wrote:
A "datum" is a "set of constants" derived from "terrestrial leveling nets"? Yeah...


These are all referenced to 0,0,0. This point is the reference datum. Each coordinate and elevation is referenced to that single point.

But yeah, there are multiple coordinate systems, so multiple datums....


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:12 pm 
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I use "data is" and I don't apologize for doing so.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:29 am 
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"Data are" is very distracting and only Indian people talk that way who learned English from a book.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:36 pm 
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Aegnor wrote:
I use "data is" and I don't apologize for doing so.


You are what is wrong with America.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:36 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
"Data are" is very distracting and only Indian people talk that way who learned English from a book.


Anecdotal data provide evidence to the contrary.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:24 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Aegnor wrote:
I use "data is" and I don't apologize for doing so.


You are what is wrong with America.


That use isn't unique to America though. ;)

Some UK Universities, and organizitions such as the IEEE Computer Society accepts the use of data as a singular mass noun, much like the word "information."


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:00 pm 
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Coren wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Aegnor wrote:
I use "data is" and I don't apologize for doing so.


You are what is wrong with America.


That use isn't unique to America though. ;)

Some UK Universities, and organizitions such as the IEEE Computer Society accepts the use of data as a singular mass noun, much like the word "information."


Everyone knows that people in the UK don't know how to use English properly.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:35 am 
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Raltar wrote:
Isn't Data that gay robot that's always making out with C-3PO?

You called?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:28 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Data is... wrong!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:17 pm 
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Most common uses of the word "data" are mass noun uses; consequently, it is appropriate to conjugate the word "data" with a singular verb. In uses where the word refers to data in the sense that data are specific values in the set comprised of datum related to a given study or poll or experiment, then you conjugate "data" as plural.

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