The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 5:00 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Deportation & stupidity
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:52 pm 
Offline
Rihannsu Commander

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:31 am
Posts: 4709
Location: Cincinnati OH
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/mi ... 35506.html


oops. Of course the teen was an idiot for giving a fake name....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5716
I wonder if I can use this method for free airfare to a country I want to visit.

Yo no tengo las passapuerta del Americano, soy de Espana. Donde es la biblioteca?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:56 pm 
Offline
pbp Hack
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:45 pm
Posts: 7585
I'm sorry, but I refuse to see this as a gotcha story for those who feel our immigration system is too harsh.

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:00 am 
Offline
I got nothin.
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:15 pm
Posts: 11160
Location: Arafys, AKA El Müso Guapo!
The kid was an idiot.

_________________
Image
Holy shitsnacks!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:19 pm 
Offline
Commence Primary Ignition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am
Posts: 15740
Location: Combat Information Center
This is entirely the teen's fault, especially when she gave the name of a Colombian who had an arrest warrant in Colombia.

The grandmother is an idiot too. "How do you deport her without a passport?" Easy. She's claiming to be here illegally. Do you really think people bother to obtain a passport when they intend to come to the U.S. illegally? No, they don't. The vast, vast majority of people we apprehend do not have immigration documents of any kind from any country. We'd never deport anyone if we just said "Welp, they don't have a passport, so we can't prove where they came from!" People would just ditch their passports. That might apply to young children but not adolescents. They know what country they come from. If a person says "I'm a citizen of Columbia", you take their word for it. Even if they're not 18; if an adult relative isn't available to speak on their behalf, you have to treat them as if they're old enough to know what they are doing - and teenagers are.

Unaccompanied juveniles come across every day. From many countries, not just Mexico. I've seen El Sals, Guatamalans, Hondurans, Nicaraguans, all without parents. Heck, if they really are Mexican, more than likely they were the guide. Juveniles act as guides and load vehicle drivers all the time; smugglers seek them out because they get treated more leniently if they are caught.

This girl got deported because she played the system in the exact opposite manner it was designed to deal with. Millions and millions of people want to come to the U.S. illegally, and people pretend to be citizens or legal residents all the time. The system is designed to catch that. It isn't designed to prevent juveniles from pretending to be illegals in order to get deported to run away because, frankly, that's bizarre. This is a truly freak case, and it does not illustrate and problems with the immigration system. If this case were presented as a hypothetical I'd have said "who the hell would do that?" In the words of Kaffis: "She would, evidently." Go figure. :psyduck:

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:45 pm 
Offline
Lean, Mean, Googling Machine
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am
Posts: 2903
Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
DE:

You've worked with immigration enforcement haven't you? If so, maybe you could shed some light on how the deportation process works? I know that INS has its own detention facilities where they send people awaiting deportation, but other than that, I have no idea what's involved. Specifically:

  • Is there at least one hearing before a justice with legal representation? I've always assumed so.
  • How do they deal with people claiming to be citizens by name, but without any documentation?
  • How do they deal with people claiming to be citizens by name, without documentation, but with some possibly corroborating information? For instance, they claim to be Jane Doe, with SSN #123-45-6789, and there is indeed a Jane Doe with that SSN?
  • How do they deal with people claiming to be citizens and who have documentation, but it is suspected to be fraudulent? Ex. they acquired an unused SSN (dead guy) and got the name changed. They also have a driver's license by the same name with their photo

_________________
Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:39 pm 
Offline
Commence Primary Ignition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am
Posts: 15740
Location: Combat Information Center
Hopefully I can answer these questions without being excessively long-winded about it. It sort of depends on who the "they" is. Generally its a lot easier dealing with aliens apprehended in the process of entering the country (either in the process of sneaking in, or in a stash house before they begin their journey to whatever part of the U.S. they wanted to go to) than aliens who have been here a long time.

In answer to your initial question no, not always. In fact, many aliens never see an immigration judge, even if they are seeing a regular judge for another matter. There are 4 ways to put someone out of the country that I deal with:
1) Voluntary removal: This does not count as a deportation on their record. It's only available to Mexican citizens (possibly Canadians too but that clearly is less of a problem area), and only if they have relatively few prior apprehensions for illegal entry and lack other criminal history. Basically, we take them to the bridge and send them back. This is the least preferred method because it has the least deterrent value, but it is fast and easy. There is a similar procedure available to aliens who have been here a long time from other countries called voluntary departure, but I haven't ever dealt with that. It does involve seeing a judge.
2) Expedited removal: This can only happen to aliens apprehended within 14 days of entry, 100 air miles of the border, and who have other criteria as well. In this case, the immigration officer orders them removed without further proceedings. This basically is to keep the immigration judges from being overwhelmed with the large groups apprehended in border areas. It does count as a deportation, and can be applied to aliens who are not Mexican. It can even be applied to aliens who are going to the regular judge for criminal proceedings, whether that's a Federal judge or a local or state one. For example, a drug smuggler might have to go to the Federal magistrate for drug charges, serve whatever sentence he's given, then be promptly deported under expedited removal after he gets out of jail because he was apprehended in the process of bringing the drugs across the river. The alien can refuse to sign papers and get in front of a judge by that means, but all he's really doing is dragging it out.
3 Warrant of Arrest/Notice to Appear: This is when aliens go see the immigration judge, which may or may not also involve a trip to a regular judge if they're charged with a criminal matter as well. The judge then hears their case. Juveniles are more likely to take this route, as is pratically any alien apprehended after being in the U.S. for any length of time, or out of the border area (the border area being within 100 miles of the border).
4) Reinstatement: If records checks indicate the alien has a prior deportation or removal still in effect, the immigration officer may order it reinstated without further ado. The alien can request a hearing before the judge to contest this determination, but as a practical matter that's not going to go well unless he happens to have someone that looks like him and has similar fingerprints because records checks start out with a photo and fingerprint comparison.

The alien is entitled to an attorney if they go to court, but not if they accept Expedited Removal or Reinstatement without contesting it.

The decision of which process to follow is taken by the supervisor after review of the initial fingerprint and photo check and the file is assigned to an agent that then processes the file. Once complete, it must be signed off on by both a supervisor, and a higher-level supervisor such as a watch commander, agent-in-charge, or chief. Then, the alien goes to regular court if charged with a criminal violation, followed by immigration court, or his expedited removal or reinstatement. Aliens charged with crimes are never given voluntary return.

A person claiming to be a United States Citizen, whether entering the country at a port of entry or not, must establish to the satisfaction of the examining officer that he or she is a U.S. citizen. This may sound arbitrary but in practice it is not; the officer does not get to set any arbitrarily high criteria he wishes for "his satisfaction" and if deportation proceedings are commenced against a person insisting they are a USC, that case will definitely go to a judge. No one gets put back out of the U.S. right on the spot; aliens presenting visas and passports and trying to enter legally can be denied entry but they obviously are not claiming to be USCs if they are trying to make a legal entry as an alien.

If that person has no documentation on them, the examining officer will ask their name, date, and location of birth and records checks will be run. The officer will also ask them some basic questions to see if they can answer them, such as "what are the colors of the American flag?". If the person gets the colors out of order, they most likely aren't a USC. Granted, you can have cases where someone tried to have an anchor baby and the person is coming in has not grown up in the US, but that's what the records checks resolve - and generally, a person whose parents have told them "you're a USC" won't bother to try to cross illegally because they believe they have a right to enter and will go to customs, which is good because it's a lot easier to clear things up that way. When you apprehend 20 muddy people in the middle of nowhere and one claims to be a USC there's one of two realistic possibilites: He's a guide for the group (and might actually be a USC) or he's just lying.

If the person has other corroborating information such as "this is my SSN" or "you can contact Joe Blow who can vouch for me" it's basically the same process except that the extra information just makes confirming or nonconfirming the story easier.

As for fraudulent documentation, that happens, and there are techniques for detecting it. There's been some training emphasis lately on detection of them, but I don't want to go into that; the details are just endless. The "acquiring an SSN" is rather more sophisticated than the vast majority of fraudulent documents; most of them are simply fraudulently acquired, altered, or straight-up forged.

This particular case really goes outside the bounds of all of this. The system is designed to catch people lying about their right to be here, not lying in order to get themselves deported. It's kind of like that Life of David Gale movie; despite its pretensions to the contrary it's not an impeachment of the death penalty because, no matter your feelings ont he subject, it's hard to complain that a guy got falsely executed when he, himself, was complicit in his own framing.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 243 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group