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 Post subject: Re: Where is NF and LK?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:33 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
That's some nice faux sensitivity some of you have got going.

Here is Kate's last post:

viewtopic.php?p=183311#p183311

Here's the start of the thread, if anyone is inclined to read it:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7732

Kate was told to cook meth, play with hydrochloric acid, mix gunpowder, and mix chlorine gas. She was ignorant enough to go put those ingredients on her shopping list. When other people (chiefly me) told her that her ignorance can get her hurt or killed, she got her panties in a twist and stormed off. She didn't get pissed off at any of the chuckleheads who thought they were cute. She got pissed off at me.

It wasn't insensitivity that drove Kate off. Kate drove Kate off.

Everybody in that thread knew what they were posting, and they knew god damn well Kate didn't know any better. You want to whine and cry about sensitivity? Kate was seriously considering trying those experiments when I stepped in. Why don't you start complaining at the people who were smiling at Kate, telling her to go kill herself and her son, and then laughing at her behind her back while waiting to see if she was gullible enough to fall for it?

But you don't. Instead, you post little snide quips like this:
Midgen wrote:
Awesome. I had such high hopes for this thread.

I'm glad you didn't let me down Coro.

And this:
FarSky wrote:
I can't imagine why anyone would decide not to visit here anymore.

Where were you two, huh? If you want to make back-handed comments about how heartless and cruel the rest of us are, what the **** were you doing when that thread was going on?


You know, you're right that in that thread you were pretty much the first one to call attention to her inexperience in trying those things, and you really did try to do it without being an ***. In fact, you weren't an *** at all. That thread had far less assholean behavior than this one already has.

That said, you've built yourself quite a reputation for sarcastically lecturing everyone else, and not always when you know what you're talking about as well as you do with chemistry and lab safety. Let's not blame it all on Kate. She can hardly be blamed completely for taking your post as a sarcastic putdown when you've got a reputation for extensive sarcastic put-downs whether they're needed or not. Even if your wording was a lot less insulting than normal (and it was vastly more polite than your norm) it's not entirely unreasonable for her to assume you were being rather condescending.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:48 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
Oh no, I've been scolded by Corolinth for making snide quips.

It's cute that you think that chemistry thread was the reason they/she left. That was the straw that broke the camel's back.

If anyone ever wondered why I didn't perma-ban Montegue during my tenure, it's quite simple. While I utterly hated the idea, I let him stay because he was a lightning rod, the willing recipient of the board's Two Minutes Hate. Republican, Democrat, liberal, conservative, human being or alien, Montegue had the unique ability to piss literally everyone off, and didn't mind being a punching bag. While his very presence made several "someone is wrong on the internet" types really, really annoyed ("I can't believe he still holds his own opinons! I've proven him wrong so many times!"), most were content to just let him remain a punching bag. A necessary evil. But in the absence of Monte, someone else needed to be that scapegoat. We as humans don't seem to generally like the fact that there are people that exist who either disagree with us or annoy us through repeated exposure. And so what happens? We push away everything that clashes with our own worldviews, and then start looking for things that might clash with them, and so on. We've eaten ourselves alive.

Taly commented on the rarity of decent discussion in the 'six kinds of libertarians' thread. And it's astonishing to see that. I thought that kind of discussion was no longer possible here. Instead, its existence proves that it is perfectly possible, it's just not the path that we choose 99% of the time. Instead, we'd rather fling our e-peens around like billy clubs, act as though each and every person here is final goddamn authority on any given subject, and try to destroy anyone who thinks differently.

Nitefox and LK have the right **** idea. This place was invaluable to me 12 years ago, when I was growing up as literally the only geek in my family and town. I felt incredibly alone. The Glade opened my eyes, and made me realize that hey, I wasn't alone! There were others out there that liked the same things I did, that had the same kinds of interests and could have conversations more intelligent than whether it was going to rain or not, or asking an opinion of <insert sports team mascot name here>.

That was 12 years ago. I've made a lot of friends, many for life, on this message board, and it's enriched my life fully. But we've routinely seen a drop in everything that I used to love about this board. And the personalities on here that used to be worthwhile have either A) left because they saw the writing on the wall or B) suffered from personality creep that has let their worst traits run wild without the value-added portions.

I'm freely available on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Google+, email (farsky at gmail), and dozens of other outlets. If there's anyone still here who wants to drop me a line, feel free to do so. I've wrestled of late over the decision to leave here entirely, or just cut back my time to the areas of the board that beggar my interest, but the simple fact of the matter is that those areas have withered and died on their vines.

Peace.


This might have more impact if you hadn't been complaining about the "new people" flushing the place down the shitter 7 years ago.

I think everyone appreciates your time, work, and effort in keeping the server running through the BoardZero issues. I'll leave it at that.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:56 pm 
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my current theory is that she ignored our safety warnings and blew up her house.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:33 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
Some of what DE said, but also, I think some people who come here are a bit over-sensitive and take things personally when they weren't intended thast way, as if they are looking for reasons to be offended. Combine the two, and you get what we have today. Sarcasm and certain types of jokes, which are central to many people's personalities, don't translate well in this particular medium.

Yeah, IRL I'm kind of deadpan as it is. I sometimes forget strangers can't tell if I'm joking or not. The internet is not completely dissimilar.

Also, maybe some people should simply abstain from Hellfire. Seriously, if you can't control yourself, maybe a mod can lock you out of it for your own good. Politics are frequently not polite conversation for reasons we all know. It's better if they are polite, but we know that isn't always going to happen.

If you want to feel better, go read the ArsTechnica version of hellfire. Holding a "non-liberal" view there is rough.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:51 pm 
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It sucks when people leave. No doubt about it...but it is always the person leaving's choice(except in the case of bans, which I think there has been like, 2). It is you leaving, not other people forcing you to leave.

As someone who rarely gets involved in the bullshit that happens in Hellfire, I can safely say the Glade has not changed in the (almost) 12 years I've been visiting. People like to look back with rose colored glasses saying it used to be different, but it really wasn't. People have been dicks since day **** one of the real life forum.

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 Post subject: Re: Where is NF and LK?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:54 pm 
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Wow. Just holy ****.....

I think I am at a loss for words right now over how this innocent request has turned. Anything I may add would simply stoke the fire. Out of all the things I could post, in all the forums on this board, to think something like this even gets turned into ****.......

Right now I am slightly saddened and pissed off that this has transpired. Better that I simply take a break and come back later.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:49 pm 
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Sam, I dunno...I think this thread might make people think..that's what I was doing in trying to figure things out. I posted a question and I really appreciate people's different viewpoints. I agree with Raltar, I'm sensitive so I rarely go into Hellfire and post, and if I do....and my feelings get hurt, I have no one to blame but me.

I agree with DE also, I don't think Coro was demeaning in the chemistry thread, I think he stepped in and pointed out something that truely might have had bad results for Kate. I think to post things that are not safe as a joke, then not acknowledge it as a joke is far worse thing to do. I would not have known those ingredients make meth..I have also had several courses in Chemistry..but it's not my forte, so I would have possibly taken the advice given...if Coro hadn't pointed it out.

I dunno what happened to cause Kate and NF to leave. Probably just a build up of several incidents in a short time. But, it does make me sad to lose their posts. They both had unique view points and made this place fun.

I just wish people could walk away and not post if they dont have something to contribute...we all know what I mean. This board has some of the most amazing people ever...no comparison to any other forum I frequent. I like coming here and getting advice, there are some incredible sense of humors here too.

I don't think people need to change the way they are...just maybe read what you post before you hit submit and be respectful..

I like the people here, I have made some incredible friends and I truely hope NF and Kate return after some time away. They are a part of the Glade.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:17 pm 
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I think this thread is pretty much a microcosm of what is left of this place...

For what it's worth, LK was asked about returning to the glade in a G+ conversation recently. As FarSky said, the chemistry thread was just the last straw. She stated pretty definitively that she has no interest in coming here any more.

I think this thread is a pretty good summary of why...


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 Post subject: Re: Where is NF and LK?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:31 pm 
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I'm going to be selfish for a moment and hope that they both come back soon because I miss them. With that said, I wish them nothing but happiness in their lives. They are good people and have been missed here by quite a few of us.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:07 pm 
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The place hasn't changed one bit, Midgen. It's exactly the same as it always was. As for insesnitivity over people leaving, when someone tells you that you aren't worth their time, and storms off they can go **** themselves as far as I'm concerned.

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Last edited by Rynar on Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Where is NF and LK?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Shouldn't the thread title be "Where ARE NF and LK?"

#joketodiffusetension #Imissthemtoo


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 Post subject: Re: Where is NF and LK?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:22 am 
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The Chemistry Set thread was just one of several that were interpretted not as intended. I recall the "fainting game" thread, which had completely reasonable response and I know when I Google "fainting game" the first hit is the wiki about the intended response and a very serious topic. But, everyone gets stressed out from time to time and sometimes an internet response is the safest place to lash out (shoot, even I got upset with Monte and I never go into certain topic areas to avoid such things, I have no desire for them in my life).

I know they (NightFox and LadyKate) have had plenty of personal issues to deal with for quite a while, so here is hoping they are finding the time they need to get things worked out.

I meant to ask my wife to check facebook and see how LadyKate is doing as they made connections just after LadyKate came here. I'm off to bed, but I'll try to post something in the morning.

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 Post subject: Re: Where is NF and LK?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:54 am 
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Darkroland wrote:
Shouldn't the thread title be "Where ARE NF and LK?"

#joketodiffusetension #Imissthemtoo


I have avoided saying that so far Darkroland, but now might be a good time.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:19 am 
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I liked Kate. I'm sorry she's gone. The 'robust bully boy' defence lacks empathy - I'm ok with A, so **** 'em if they're not.

Oh well. Hugs to all. ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:26 am 
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NF has been around a long, long time.

I'd be surprised (and disappointed) if they were gone for good. If you guys are lurking and reading this, I hope all is well. (And I hope that my goofing around with the photoshop thing wasn't taken in a douchebaggy way)

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 Post subject: Re: Where is NF and LK?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:31 am 
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The glade

"All speech, written or spoken, is a dead language until it finds a willing and prepared hearer."
Robert Louis Stevenson

So rare on this site. No one wants to hear about anyone elses crap because they already have their own opinions formulated. Why bother? LK and NF, good for them, They said their peace and moved along.
If people want to regularly be assholes for the sake of being assholes on a board, you really need to take the drama out your ***. Freedom of speech is one thing, Freedom of Speech with Tact is another. People on their high horses about their views on society lack the best thing in the world! Charm. You want to convince people on your ideas and thoughts, name calling puts up the wall and barrier and people shut down. Why would they want to listen to you now? I have learned that talking with parents that reason, logic, and facts will get your point across better when you show empathy.

So by all means, be an ******* but remember what Confucius said,
"A superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions."

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:47 am 
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I've been around for a long time, and there is very little that is said here that I would define as people being assholes. Some aren't always the most tactful, but isn't that how it naturally goes with really old friends? The longer you've known someone, the more you have a tendency to be blunt.

And Hellfire is a special place all to itself, with warning signs posted and everything. I have very little sympathy for people who, well knowing what goes on in there, wander in, and then get outraged and leave when people don't agree with them or point out holes in arguments in a very blunt fashion.

I'm not saying everyone is wonderful all of the time, but I also feel that very little benefit of the doubt is given when someone posts something harsh.



I'll also add that there's a definite pile on effect that goes on here, a lot. And it's not piling onto the person that perceives a slight, but rather piling on negatives to someone who is perceived to have slighted one of the "weaker" members. And throughout the boards history, there have definitely been those people that everyone feels like they need to circle the wagons to protect.

I've been around the glade for 11 years now, and I'll agree with those that say it hasn't really changed. People have been blunt and opinionated since the start. Just my 2 cents, having sat around and watched for years.

I'll also add that the environment here is downright saccharine sweet compared to any of the other message boards I frequent.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:24 pm 
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NephyrS wrote:
I've been around the glade for 11 years now, and I'll agree with those that say it hasn't really changed. People have been blunt and opinionated since the start. Just my 2 cents, having sat around and watched for years.


That's quite true. Any of the battles we used to have over DKP or over whether Rangers should be tanks, melee DPS or ranged DPS outclass easily come up to the level of our most dramatic hellfire battles. We also used to have posters even more antagonistic than Monty. Arkus comes to mind. You haven't seen a high horse until you've heard that guy tell you what you are required to think. There were a few others too, usually lecturing someone on what an *** they were for not devoting their life to the betterment of their guild.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:28 pm 
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Even excepting the EQ stuff, there was quite a lot of drama in the IRL forum back in the day as well.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:51 pm 
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I have been here as Lonedar since Velius was released. I had a different login that I forgot the password to, since before that (and I can't even remember the username anymore). I would just like to say that rangers should be primarily melee dps, and secondary tanks or ranged dps depending on how specced. Thank you.

I hope LK and NF pop back in sometime.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:01 pm 
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It always boggles my mind that people routinely act like bullies and jerks and then blame others for their insensitivity, never bothering to ask themselves WHY someone would waste their time putting up with such nonsense.

People have to be motivated to log into the board. What are they getting out of it? If it's insensitive comments and dealing with jerks, it's not unreasonable to assume that many will find that inadequate motivation.

A poster above suggested that some posters are over-sensitive, and then made the following statement: "when someone tells you that you aren't worth their time, and storms of they can go **** themselves as far as I'm concerned." I just don't get the animosity. To take something so harshly seems over-sensitive to me....

I agree that things, in general, haven't changed about the way some people disrespectfully to others. But one thing has changed: Many of the more even-tempered individuals have gotten tired of it. Many have left.

It's a sad state of affairs when the jerks on this board can't even post in a thread like this without spewing their garbage.

Cya Farsky - good luck with everything. Same with NF and LK if you guys see this.

DE - To answer your "why not": Monty may have contributed somewhat, but he's not an excuse. We're all responsible for our own actions.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
DE - To answer your "why not": Monty may have contributed somewhat, but he's not an excuse. We're all responsible for our own actions.


By the same token, allowing someone to remain that makes those actions essentially inevitable and systemic, then telling everyone else "you're responsible for your own actions" doesn't work either. You're responsible for your own actions assumes there's a known standard of what's acceptable and what's not. Allowing Monty to remain under the logic of "he serves as the punching bag" created a standard that using other posters as a punching bag is acceptable here. It's a social standard, and those vary heavily from environment to environment; the "you're responsible for your own behavior" argument is a lot like going into a hockey locker room and castigating the players for swearing when they've been doing so for years on the basis that it's unacceptable in a family restaurant.

Now, we have had a standard of keeping Hellfire in Hellfire as well, but we've also had a standard that when someone comes asking for advice, no one needs to varnish their opinion just to make sure that person doesn't hear anything they don't like, and it's inevitable that some of the posting style of Hellfire is going to leak out from time to time, even if the topics don't. The bottom line is that when you keep a guy like that around and just let him beat up on everyone else and they on him, you create a standard where acting like a total prick to anyone you think is being stupid is the standard.

Monty isn't "an excuse" but he's a lot more than just "contributing somewhat".

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:30 pm 
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I do think it's funny that a lot of the most venemous posts in this thread have come from those reviling how mean-spirited the board has become.

As for why someone would react badly when told that you're not worth their time? A lot of us feel like we have long-standing relationships. That's always going to cause animosity when someone storms out and cuts you out of their life, whether it's here or IRL. And when it happens over a (relatively) minor disagreement? Then it often causes a backlash against the person storming out. Nothing unusual here.

And I wouldn't really say that a lot of the people that have left are the more even-tempered ones, but that's just me.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:28 pm 
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This thread kinda sucks.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:37 pm 
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I'm honestly not surprised they left, a lot of people on here are often harsh, have no sense of empathy or how what they say can effect other people and generally just don't seem to care that the act like total pricks, causing several nice people to leave these forums. I've almost left several times for the same reasons, and though I haven't yet I post and visit significantly less than I used to because I often find it's not worth bothering joining in on a conversation with how a lot of people tend to be on here.

Really I find it ridiculous that we've gone so out of our way to censor minor curse words while no ones an eye at the complete asshats on here that are far worse than any stupid little curse word.


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