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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:07 pm 
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I'm a big stickler for animation quality and when you start messing with the facial mesh that uses one set of animations, things start to get wonky in motion. That's probably the #1 reason for me using the default male face, lowest probability of seeing weird things like eyelids clipping or lips not connecting right.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:13 pm 
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For Lenas: This spoiler has plot spoilers.
Spoiler:
Damnit. I'm not sure I want to play a game in which there is absolutely no ending in which the main character can survive.

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Last edited by Talya on Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:33 pm 
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Things can't always go how you want, Taly. That's one of the main themes of part 3 :p

...and give some hint as to what your spoilers are in the future please. Especially since you've apparently made yourself aware of the entire plot prior to even stealing the game.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:33 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Spoiler:
Damnit. I'm not sure I want to play a game in which there is absolutely no ending in which the main character can survive.


Spoiler:
Seriously, did you honestly not see that coming? This whole series has had an obvious conclusion from the very first game. And it was cemented with the whole "This is the final chapter" marketing of ME3.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:44 pm 
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This spoiler has plot spoilers.
Spoiler:
Numbuk: In a series with as many possible endings and variations for the first two games, I honestly did expect to see some variation in which Shepard could survive. Because one of the hallmarks of the ME series has been, "Your choices matter, and the game can end very differently depending on what you do." All three of these endings are essentially the same, making every choice one has made from beginning to end of the series irrelevant.

Lenas: After seeing a large number of negative metacritic reviews about the endings, I had to look up what they were complaining about. Nothing would irritate me more than playing a long game with a crappy ending. Now I'm not sure I feel like playing it through.


And if I put it in a spoiler, I mean it! :P

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Last edited by Talya on Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:49 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Things can't always go how you want, Taly. That's one of the main themes of part 3 :p

...and give some hint as to what your spoilers are in the future please. Especially since you've apparently made yourself aware of the entire plot prior to even stealing the game.


Yeah, I thought it was going to be something along the same thread as we were already discussing... man I wish I hadn't looked at that spoiler.

Just goes to show, just because you know someone isn't playing a game and you think it's probably safe to look at their spoiler doesn't mean they won't look up the ending and post it anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:58 pm 
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Wait... So you guys clicked a spoiler, and now you're getting upset that it contained a spoiler?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Quote:
just because you know someone isn't playing a game


I loved ME2, it was one of my favorite games. I had every intention of playing ME3. I still might. I'm kinda hoping for DLC that gives more endings.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:11 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
Wait... So you guys clicked a spoiler, and now you're getting upset that it contained a spoiler?


Only upset at myself. I didn't go off on Taly, I just asked her to put some kind of note about the spoiler. It's nice to know the difference between a romance spoiler and an ending spoiler. All I'm asking is that we all be decent human beings and put something like, "Re: ending" before you start dropping bombs like the one Taly just used to ruin my day.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:22 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Corolinth wrote:
Wait... So you guys clicked a spoiler, and now you're getting upset that it contained a spoiler?


Only upset at myself. I didn't go off on Taly, I just asked her to put some kind of note about the spoiler. It's nice to know the difference between a romance spoiler and an ending spoiler. All I'm asking is that we all be decent human beings and put something like, "Re: ending" before you start dropping bombs like the one Taly just used to ruin my day.


I'm in this boat as well, also mainly angry at myself. I avoid spoilers like the plague, but in a momentary lapse of judgement coupled with the fact that I knew Taly wasn't playing the game, I clicked and ruined my day as well.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:28 pm 
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So, I've basically been using the N7 Valiant exclusively. Sniping is that good in this game. I was using the Valiant until I got the Black Widow and now I only use that. I was carrying the N7 Hurricane, but I've never once had to switch to it. So yeah, Black Widow V and it is pure rape. I get 40% bonus damage when cloaked instead of being able to use a power. Not really a big deal when cloak lasts 11 seconds and recharges in 2.

Nothing quite like having 4-5 guys standing in a line and shooting through all of them with a single shot Indiana Jones style.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:32 pm 
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My friend says he's near the end of the game at 29 hours or so and he has no idea who the DLC character is when I asked him, so it does look like "From Ashes" is a Zaeed type situation. Side mission, squad mate and "flavor text" style character on the ship.

That said, anyone that has played the series will probably want the lore that the DLC has to offer. It's definitely changed my outlook on the
Spoiler:
Protheans and their place in the Galaxy.


I'm about 8 hours in and I think I'm about to find out what came of my Rachni decision in part 1.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:39 pm 
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More ending spoilers (sortof)

Spoiler:
Seems the bioware community is overwhelmingly (95%-5%) in agreement on the situation with the endings. :(

http://social.bioware.com/633606/polls/28989/

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:42 pm 
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Spoiler:
When a character reaches Jesus status, the only logical and best option is to kill that character off. Otherwise it's hack writing and fanfiction territory. Doesn't meant that the game is bad. Some of the absolute greatest games I have ever played in the history of my life had the main character killed off at the end. The same goes for some really, really great movies.

Mass Effect is about story first, and always has been. That's why it was damn obvious from the start that your character was going to die. Hell, I expected it from the first game and was surprised to see it didn't happen then.

I'd wager you're more upset about learning the Massive Mass Effect Spoiler beforehand, completely out of context and without the emotional build-up.

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Last edited by Numbuk on Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:48 pm 
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Numbuk wrote:
Spoiler:
When a character reaches Jesus status, the only logical and best option is to kill that character off. Otherwise it's hack writing and fanfiction territory. Doesn't meant that the game is bad. Some of the absolute greatest games I have ever played in the history of my life had the main character killed off at the end. The same goes for some really, really great movies.

Mass Effect is about story first, and always has been. That's why it was damn obvious from the start that your character was going to die. Hell, I expected it from the first game and was surprised to see it didn't happen then.


Spoiler:
Bullshit. It certainly didn't help in "The Matrix" sequels to kill of Neo & Trinity. (Except for the advantage that we wouldn't have to endure any more poorly written sequels.) "The Chosen One" doesn't always need to die to avoid "hack writing." Actually, the fact that the first Matrix movie stands alone as a great movie without sequels rather proves that.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:55 pm 
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Spoiler:
Killing off a character doesn't automatically a bad script great either, true. But there is absolutely not one story where the character keeps coming back and coming back, becoming more and more powerful and getting into more and more crazy situations where it just starts to get silly, repetitive, and honest-to-God boring as hell to me.

A good writer knows when to call it quits. And a good writer will not let the call of money overpower their decision. Though some fans like their Jesus and will rant no matter what.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:07 pm 
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Spoiler:
Meh. I think a history of modern storytelling disagrees with you. RotJ would not have been better if Luke had died. DS9's ending is not better for Sisko having disappeared. Buffy getting killed off was a bad idea (that they corrected.) I could go through dozens --maybe hundreds-- of great movies and tv shows where the main character is every bit as impressive as Commander Shepard, and nobody is complaining that they didn't kill them off. I consider killing off the hero to usually be something of an irritating, lazy cliché that allows the writer to escape the need to provide closure and make the ending feel dramatic without much work.

This is especially true when we've been promised an endless variety of endings, and yet there is basically only one in every case, for Shepard, her companions, and the rest of the galaxy, there's really no difference to any of the three.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:14 pm 
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I'm not going to read any replies to this particular post until I beat the game, since I'm sure Talya will take issue with it, but here is a spoiler-free guide to the 16 different endings


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:00 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
I'm not going to read any replies to this particular post until I beat the game, since I'm sure Talya will take issue with it, but here is a spoiler-free guide to the 16 different endings



They're all the same except for minutia. Every ending is nearly identical. Also, the videos listed in your link contradict a stated essential plot element that WOULD be different, if it were true.

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Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:09 pm 
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The minutia is exactly what makes this series great. Mass Effect's parts are greater than its' sum.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:24 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
The minutia is exactly what makes this series great. Mass Effect's parts are greater than its' sum.


The minutia is nice, but the fact that nothing you do can influence the eventual fate of Normandy or her crew (which I haven't spoiled anywhere), Shepard, or the galaxy as a whole, is somewhat odd considering how much your choices have mattered so far in these games.

Your actions can impact the fate of Earth, which, admittedly, is important to us humans, but in the grand scheme of things is just one planet out of thousands of inhabited worlds.

What I've always liked about Bioware RPGs are the character personalities and interpersonal relationships. (This is why Skyrim, for all its content, feels empty to me.) Mass Effect and Dragon Age really perfected these, but it's been true throughout most of their games. They make me invested in what happens to them, one way or another. (My favorite Bioware characters, btw, are not even romanceable: Varric from DA2, Mordin Solus from ME2, and HK-47 from KotOR.) I'm sure ME3 won't disappoint in that regard...so I'm still likely to play it through, but it will feel rather hollow without a way to get even a bittersweet ending.

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But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
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Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:02 pm 
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Minutiae may or may not make an ending different. Take Mass Effect 1 - that game has only one ending. Shepard sends Sovereign packing. The Council may or may not survive, Udina or Anderson may end up as Earth's representative, but the ending is the same no matter how you slice it. Shepard is a pariah in Mass Effect 2, no matter how Mass Effect 1 ended.

Knights of the Old Republic 1 has two endings. In one, the Republic crushes the Sith Empire. In the other, the Republic is crushed under the boot heel of the Sith Empire.

The ending to Mass Effect 3 is a big deal. People have played through three games to see it. They're invested in the game and the character, but not just any character - their character that they imported into two games. Some people want their fairy tale ending. Some people want their survivors pick up the pieces ending. Some people want their no survivors ending. Some people want to have Shepard join the Reapers.

A movie can't satisfy all of those possibilities. Video games can. For a three-part series where the developers crowed about how many hundreds or thousands of decision variables they were keeping track of through all three games to make a completely personalized gaming experience, they damn well better. Minutiae don't matter anymore. That minutiae should have added up to a mountain by now. This isn't one of the two intermediary titles. Mass Effect 3 is the closer. All those minutiae from the first two games need to add up to fundamentally different endings. Otherwise, Bioware failed. What good was tracking all those decision variables if the only thing they do is influence a few lines of random dialogue that I hear while cruising the Citadel?

I have no idea what the ending is, because I haven't really read anything other than Shepard is back, and Earth is in trouble. However, the scope of this series has been hyped since day one. Bioware gave us a lot of big talk about how they were making the next leap forward in interactive storytelling. Now, they have to deliver.

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Last edited by Corolinth on Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:09 pm 
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I don't think it's fair to say that Bioware could have given us every single possible ending when no other game franchise has even come close to this level of involvement. I really think they did everything that they could, story wise, while still being able to deliver the same quality of game to everyone that played it.

Those minutiae don't need to all add up to a unique ending, culminating in some off-the-charts epic **** that causes you money shot your TV. They need to add up to different events throughout the entire story, where maybe the only person who would notice a difference is the one making the decisions. Which is exactly what's happening in my game right now.

Bioware never made the promise that every single person would have a unique ending to Mass Effect. They said your decisions would carry over. Just because people have a romanticized version of what that means in their head doesn't mean that Bioware lied or failed to deliver.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Coro, making divergent plots is hard. It's harder when you have to have voice acting for the dialogue. Voice actors cost money, and it takes time.

That's why Wing Commander was doing it with **** FMV (including possibilities for character deaths that do or don't show up in later scenes) in the 90's.

/facepalm

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:15 pm 
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Other game franchises haven't been talked up by their developers the way Mass Effect has. Other game developers haven't bragged about how many decision variables they were tracking the way Mass Effect's developers have. Other game developers haven't been selling the, "Your decisions matter," line for three games like Mass Effect's developers have.

As such, I am going to hold Mass Effect's ending to a higher standard than ChronoTrigger.

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