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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:15 am 
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Minnesota Waitress Sues After Police Seize $12,000 'Tip'
ABC NewsBy JENNIFER ABBEY | ABC News – 18 hrs ago

Stacy Knutson, a struggling Minnesota waitress and mother of five, says she was searching for a "miracle" to help her family with financial problems.

But that "miracle" quickly came and went after police seized a $12,000 tip that was left at her table. Knutson filed a lawsuit in Clay County District Court stating that the money is rightfully hers. Police argue it is drug money.

Knutson was working at the Fryn' Pan in Moorhead, Minn., when, according to her attorney, Craig Richie, a woman left a to-go box from another restaurant on the table. Knutson followed the woman to her car to return the box to her.

"No I am good, you keep it," the woman said, according to the lawsuit.

Knutson did not know the woman and has not seen her since, Richie said. Knutson thought it was "strange" that the woman told her to keep it but she took it inside. The box felt too heavy to be leftovers, Ritchie said, so she opened it -- only to find bundles of cash wrapped in rubber bands.

"Even though I desperately needed the money as my husband and I have five children, I feel I did the right thing by calling the Moorhead Police," Knutson said in the lawsuit.

Police seized the money and originally told Knutson that if no one claimed it after 60 days, it was hers. She was later told 90 days, Richie said. When 90 days passed, Knutson was still without the $12,000.

Police told Knutson the money was being held as "drug money" and she would receive a $1,000 reward instead, the lawsuit states. Lt. Tory Jacobson of the Moorhead police said he could not disclose much information about the case because it is an ongoing investigation.

"With turning this money over to us, we initiated an investigation to determine whose money this is," Jacobson told ABC News. "The result has been a narcotics investigation."

Police argue that the money had a strong odor of marijuana and therefore falls under a law that allows for forfeiture of the money because it was in the proximity of a controlled substance, the lawsuit states. But there were no drugs in the box and Richie said he believes this law is not being used correctly.

"Because it was in contact with drugs somewhere along the line, it's somehow drug money," Richie said. "This isn't drug money."

A police dog also performed a sniff test on the money and, according to the dog's handler, discovered an odor.

Two of Knutson's co-workers, along with her son Brandon, were at the Fryn' Pan the night she discovered the money. Her co-workers say they did not smell marijuana.

"I know the smell of marijuana," Nickolas Fronning, a line cook at the Fryn' Pan, said in an affidavit. "I can also assure you that there was no smell of marijuana on the bills or coming from the box."

There was nothing suspicious in the restaurant when the money was found, co-workers said. They don't why it was given to Knutson.

"She was just in the right place at the right time," Tracy Johnson, the assistant manager at the Fryn' Pan, told ABC News.

Knutson's family has had a long financial struggle. She has been a waitress at the Fryn' Pan for 18 years.

"We do everything we can to make ends meet, but often times everything is not covered," she said in the lawsuit.

Knutson's financial woes are well-known in her church, Richie said. She believes that perhaps someone from the church gave her the money through this woman but did not want to be identified.

"Somebody knew she really needed the money and she needed to be helped," Richie said.

Jacobson says it is up to the judge to decide who the money rightfully belongs to.

"The police department doesn't have a decision on either side," Jacobson said. "She did the right thing, we credit her with that. It's certainly not the police department against her. We're actually with her."

But Richie said he firmly believes this is not drug money and it rightfully belongs to Knutson.

"The only thing that smells bad about this is that it's unfair," Richie said. "So that's why we're doing something about it."


http://news.yahoo.com/minnesota-waitress-sues-police-seize-12-000-tip-212757225--abc-news-topstories.html


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:21 pm 
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"We're actually with her," says the police department. I read "But not as with her as we are with the $12,000 we get to keep if we declare it drug money..."

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Because we all know canines actually can't detect smells that humans can. :roll:

I hope that they can let her keep it, but if it is drug money there's no reason they shouldn't sieze it. Calling it a "tip" is a bit inaccurate too. The woman that originally had it left it in a go-box from another restaraunt on the table. Since when does anyone ever leave a "tip" in a to-go box?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:14 pm 
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She's entitled to her day in court. I'm not sure whether or not she's in the right on this. I'm not a lawyer nor do I pretend to play one on the internet. However I do feel the urge to make a joke about the precedent established in Finders v. Keepers

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Last edited by Rorinthas on Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:22 pm 
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Completely not related, but now I am thinking of the tip discussion from Reservoir dogs...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:45 pm 
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Try to find something 20 or over that doesn't have drug residue on it.

There have been a few tv reports of this and they didn't find an average person's money in their wallet that didn't fail. Got a Congressman with it as well.

I doubt type of gift wrap meets RAS or PC standards.

I do believe 12,000 is money a department wants.

Asset forfeiture needs to be abolished.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:43 pm 
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Well...I will just say it, she didn't do the right thing. You find that kind of loot, you don't call the cops.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:29 pm 
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Yet one more reason to NOT call the cops. They aren't there to help you.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:42 am 
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In this case, the woman would have been perfectly fine not calling the cops. She did so of her own accord. The cops then examined the money and found reason to suspect it was involved in crime.

Well, obviously the woman did too, or else why did she call the cops? All she's really doing now is having sour grapes that she isn't getting the money (at least, so far). Her conscience made her call the police, but then all of a sudden it disappeared when she found out she wouldn't be keeping it? **** her. She should have just kept the **** in the first place if she wanted to keep it, not try to have it both ways. It's not like the police came looking for the money or anything.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:30 am 
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Pretty much every state I know of requires you notify the police in the advent you find something worth more than X amount--especially cash. $12000 would universally exceed X regardless of the state.

The cops are being dicks.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:28 am 
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The argument could be made that she didn't find it, it was given to her therefore she didn't legally have to call the cops?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:17 am 
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Federal Law prevents the transport of any amount of cash exceeding $2000 from a bank or similar financial institution to an individual without notification. As such, it's highly unlikely the money would simply be given from a single source without already being flagged by the Secret Service. Stands to reason she turned it in because she felt she "found" a mistake. Now that the money is legally hers, the cops are being dicks.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:17 am 
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Per the Money Laundering Act of 1986 Federal law does not require notification of anyone until the transaction reaches $10,000 within a 24-hour period. $10,000 is also the limit of how much currency or negotiable instruments you can transport outside the United States at one time (or in a connected series) without having to declare it. A bank may submit a Suspicious Activity Report for transactions exceeding $2,000 but is not required to. It therefore is quite possible to withdrawl $12,000 from a bank account, assuming that you spread it out over a long enough period and do it in small enough transactions. It's also possible to make such withdrawls from more than one bank account and not trigger any alarms. These are requirements for banks, not private citizens, so the waitress is not required to report the property unless A)it counts as found in Minnesota and B) Minnesota does indeed have such a law. Furthermore, the simple submission of an SAR or a Large Cash Transaction Report (LCTR) does not somehow mean the money itself is "flagged" or even that the transaction will arouse any investigation; it will depend on what other information the agency has at the time and how that fits into their overall picture.

Furthermore, while the waitress in question probably suspected something fishy about the money, it was almost certainly not because she suspected violation of the cash transaction laws but because it was a large sum of money in a damn restraunt go-box. Normal everyday people do not carry their cash in such a container; criminals, especially people involved in drug trade do that. That doesn't take anything more than everyday common sense to figure out.

This waitress likely did not have any knowledge of the bank transaction laws, and even if she did (ignorance not being a defense) was not required to report them to the police for a multitude of reasons, namely that she is not a bank, the police are not the IRS, and most importantly she had no reason to suspect that the cash was withdrawn from only one financial institution, within a close proximity so as to constitute a pattern to exceed the $10,000 threshold, or even from only one financial institution. She had no information whatsoever to lead her to believe any of these things and even if she did she was under no legal obligation to act on them even IF the transaction had been reported or "flagged". The police and IRS cannot simply show up and seize the cash just because it was withdrawn in an amount exceeding $10,000.

In fact, there's no particular reason to think that it was withdrawn from a financial institution at all. Given the fact that it was being carried around in a go-box, it was most likely the collections of various transactions, and had not seen the inside of a bank since it was withdrawn by individual spenders.

The fact of the matter is that this woman, unsurprisingly, thought something was suspicious about someone just giving her $12,000 out of the blue in a go-box and called the police. Yes, it was legally hers. Then she reported it and when the police found evidence that it was used in criminal transactions (via a canine, with a nose some 100,000 to 1,000,000 times more powerful than a human's) they seized it. It's no longer "legally hers" and it's her own fault. She will have the opportunity to file for a judicial forfieture proceeding, at which the state must prove, by clear and convincing evidence, that the money was, in fact, involved in criminal activity.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:39 am 
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But that's the point, DE -- if I was determined enough to do so, I could probably prove that every $20 in your wallet was involved in drug transactions by whipping out my police dog and residual chemical analysis equipment.

That doesn't mean you're involved in the drug trade, and that should be the line at which the authorities are permitted to seize it.

Let's put it this way. Your local corner dealer goes and buys a Slurpee at a convenience store. Can the cops show up and confiscate the $2 he paid the clerk, who put it in the tender simply because it was involved in drug dealings?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:42 am 
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They can take the whole register.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:01 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
But that's the point, DE -- if I was determined enough to do so, I could probably prove that every $20 in your wallet was involved in drug transactions by whipping out my police dog and residual chemical analysis equipment.

http://www.snopes.com/business/money/cocaine.asp

80% of all currency in circulation has cocaine residue on it.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:58 pm 
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Which is why if you want to protect yourself from eager departments you really need to literally launder your money.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:59 pm 
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Yes, Hopwin, that's why I'm confident we could seize all the money in DE's wallet.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Yes, Hopwin, that's why I'm confident we could seize all the money in DE's wallet.

Oh I know, I just wanted to jump in front of the "Citations please!" train. Personally, I am surprised more people aren't aware of this fact.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:40 am 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
But that's the point, DE -- if I was determined enough to do so, I could probably prove that every $20 in your wallet was involved in drug transactions by whipping out my police dog and residual chemical analysis equipment.


A) You're not the police.
B) I'm not giving you my wallet voluntarily to test, unlike this woman who went to the police of her own accord
C) Even if both those things did happen, I could still have a judicial seizure hearing at which you'd need a lot more evidence than just that there was some residue, since I could introduce that information that practically all cash have cocaine residue on it.
D) In this case it was marijuana residue, which has not been shown to transfer as easily as cocaine residue.

And also, I almost never carry cash personally ;)

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That doesn't mean you're involved in the drug trade, and that should be the line at which the authorities are permitted to seize it.


That should be the line at which the authorities should be allowed to permanently seize it. Hence why she's allowed to have a judicial seizure hearing in a timely fashion. At that point, the authorities will need to show their evidence, and simply showing that it smelled like marijuana to a dog does not strike me as likely to meet the "clear and convincing evidence" standard. In the meantime, however, there is nothing wrong with the police holding it as evidence.

[quote[Let's put it this way. Your local corner dealer goes and buys a Slurpee at a convenience store. Can the cops show up and confiscate the $2 he paid the clerk, who put it in the tender simply because it was involved in drug dealings?[/quote]

How exactly do the cops get access to the register to check? Does the clerk, or the store owner tell them "hey, I think this guy is a drug dealer, can you have your dog sniff my cash drawer?" If so, then there's nothing wrong with them doing exactly that; the owner voluntarily subjected his cash to examination.

If he doesn't, then the example does not pertain. You're focusing on the seizure and excluding the fact that she went and voluntarily gave the police the money. Furthermore, when they did find out that it had drug residue, they offered her a $1,000 reward. It was probably rather insensitive of them to tell her she'd be allowed to claim the money in 60 days without the caveat that it would be checked for drugs, but nothing untoward happened here.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:41 am 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Yes, Hopwin, that's why I'm confident we could seize all the money in DE's wallet.


You can't. I haven't given you access to my wallet, and you have no probable cause to seize it.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:44 am 
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Hopwin wrote:
Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Yes, Hopwin, that's why I'm confident we could seize all the money in DE's wallet.

Oh I know, I just wanted to jump in front of the "Citations please!" train. Personally, I am surprised more people aren't aware of this fact.


The same goes for you. This entire case hinges on the fact that she turned the money in to the police.

If she had not, they would have had no grounds to seize the money, even if they knew she had it. In point of fact, there's no reason to think they'd have even known about the money.

As for the "cocaine residue" thing, that hardly pertains to marijuana residue, which is not the same chemical and is not shown to transfer as easily between bills.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:24 am 
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She was REQUIRED by LAW to turn the cash into the police. If you keep ignoring that fact ...

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:44 am 
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Khross wrote:
She was REQUIRED by LAW to turn the cash into the police. If you keep ignoring that fact ...


No, Khross, she was not.

Section 345.75 requires that the holder of abandoned tangible personal property in Minnesota give 30 day's notice by certified mail or in person to the original owner that it will become the property of the possessor at the end of the 30 days. (Six months after original receipt). If the owner is unknown, publication in the county where the property is to be found will suffice.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO REQUIREMENT that she report it to the police. Furthermore, there is no reason to believe this property was ever considered abandoned, and therefore subject to any of the above requirements anyhow:

Quote:
"No I am good, you keep it," the woman said, according to the lawsuit.


The money was directly transferred from one person to another. The waitress chose not to accept transfer of ownership, and instead voluntarily reported it to the police as abandoned.

Furthermore, even if your fictitious reporting requirement did exist, that wouldn't change the facts that:
A) She did not report it because of any requirement, she reported it because she thought it was suspicious.
B) If she hadn't, the police would never have found out she had the money, and would have had no probable cause to seize it.
C) The police are not responsible for the existence of any law requiring any reporting anything, nor for that matter, any other law so complaining about police action because of what the law dictates is silly.
D) None of this has anything to do with cash registers or wallets, neither of which as examples would constitute found or abandoned property.

The fact is that you're accusing me of ignoring a "fact" which does not exist at all, while ignoring that the examples provided by others do not reflect the circumstances in question. This is yet another case of you A) making proclamations about matters in which you are not in full possession of the facts and B) taking knee-jerk issue with the police simply because they're the police.

You're simply chasing red herrings here, looking for a reason to be outraged.

I suppose this is the part where you attempt to divert the conversation onto the fact that I'm a law enforcement officer, and call into question my relationship with my wife. Please, by all means, get on with it so we can have it over with.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:11 pm 
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It doesn't matter if she was required to or not.

What matters is the police decided to keep the money for themselves and used drug residue as an excuse to violate her rights to unreasonable seizure.

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