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 Post subject: Re: Obamacare Propoganda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:42 am 
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I cannot provide a link; this information comes from conversations from someone I know in the SG's office.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:10 pm 
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Unofficial remarks are not "protest" in this capacity, nor do unofficial requests for someone to be forcibly removed amount to anything. I don't see how unofficial remarks indicate a tainted bench.

Now as to why she hasn't recused herself, that is certainly questionable in my view. I'm not familiar enough with the process to really know whether she's in violation of any ethical standard.


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 Post subject: Re: Obamacare Propoganda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:53 pm 
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She was Solicitor General and presented the official government case during the initial hearing, when the Court was deciding whether or not to hear the arguments at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Obamacare Propoganda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:54 pm 
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Well, some conservative watchdog group (Freedom Watch) filed an amicus brief asking to explain why Kagan needed to recuse herself, but the court, sans Kagan, rejected it without comment.
(see: http://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/cour ... 312zor.pdf and also this decidedly less neutral source http://patriotupdate.com/17563/obamasca ... an-recusal)
US Supreme Court order list for Monday, January 23, 2012 wrote:
( 11-400 ) FLORIDA, ET AL. V. DEPT. OF H&HS, ET AL.
The motion of Freedom Watch for leave to participate in oral argument as amicus curiae and for divided argument is denied. Justice Kagan took no part in the consideration or decision of this motion.

See also (http://harthealthstrategies.com/policyb ... 5&inside=1):
Quote:
In another matter, the court rejected an amicus by the Freedom Watch Foundation arguing that Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan recuse herself from considering PPACA-related suits because her impartiality might reasonably be questioned due to her service in the Obama Department of Justice. Supreme Court Chief Justice Roberts previously said in a report that he had confidence in the court’s justices to make the appropriate decision of when or if to recuse themselves from deciding PPACA and other cases.


Edit: PS, we're hosting Kagan in October where I work. Can't wait *grin*


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 Post subject: Re: Obamacare Propoganda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:52 pm 
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Jeryn wrote:
Edit: PS, we're hosting Kagan in October where I work. Can't wait *grin*

I demand video of her squirming in response to the question in question. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Obamacare Propoganda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:23 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
I demand video of her squirming in response to the question in question. ;)
I'm dying to do it lol :) I'd probably get lynched if I did anything but pitch softballs though. We had Clarence Thomas here a couple years ago, and I know there were some questions some people were dying to ask, but no one did it. Stupid propriety and decorum...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Why would she squirm. She has zero accountability, and a job for life.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:30 pm 
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What is the point of getting to ask questions if you can't ask the big questions.

Why not just send a foam cutout for everyone to hug and adorn with flowers?

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:10 am 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
What is the point of getting to ask questions if you can't ask the big questions.

Why not just send a foam cutout for everyone to hug and adorn with flowers?
Okay okay in all seriousness now... :) We don't really ask them to come for fawning and accolades. By way of explanation, I work at a law school. One of the things that some of our kids participate in each year is an advocacy competition. Their efforts are judged by a bench of real sitting judges, and we try to bring in someone neat each time. Two years ago Clarence Thomas was the headliner, last year we had a panel of 6th Circuit judges, and this time around Kagan is coming.

So it's not like we asked them to come specifically to do interviews or q&a; they're there to preside over an event for the students. Now granted, they do other stuff while they're here; they'll hold lectures, probably speak at a lunch, etc. But you can probably make a case that it'd be bad form to have them come down and then ask them to defend themselves. In the question of whether Kagan ought to have recused herself over PPACA, someone in one of the articles I read noted that Clarence Thomas made a specific effort to qualify himself once, to explain his rationale for not recusing himself. I don't remember if it was for Monsanto or something else. But anyway, for whatever reason, Kagan hasn't chosen to explain herself, at least not in anything that I've seen. An advocacy competition for the students that a Justice of the US Supreme Court has agreed to attend probably isn't the best venue to choose to start taking her to task for her decisions. It's almost hubris to think that, okay, you haven't bowed to pressure yet to explain why you're still there for PPACA, but today you're going to answer it for us, you know?

Now, that's not to say that the question can't be asked! If she pipes up and says "man you all are too nice, someone give me a hard one!" then it's on :P


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:53 pm 
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Yeah it was for Monsanto.

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 Post subject: Re: Obamacare Propoganda
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:43 pm 
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I'm honestly really worried about the repercussions if this ruled unconstitutional. The people in Washington aren't stupid, they know Medicare is quickly imploding under its own weight and the "Plan" was clearly to avert this catastrophe by slowly transitioning us to public health care as much under the radar as possible. If they actually kill it that's going to prevent any kind of real reform until Medicare collapses, and then what? It's not like they can just raise taxes or borrow money to pay for Medicare. 100% of the taxes we currently collect couldn't pay for Medicare.

The fact of the matter is that without "robbing the rich," the average person can't afford to live to 85. Hell, they can't afford to live to 75. It costs an average of $1.25 million in health care to live from age 65 to 85, and 85 is the current average life expectancy at age 65. Even if we assume that private health care is much more efficient and now it only costs $625,000, well the average person can't pay that either. The majority of people don't retire with $600k, let alone $600k to spend on health care exclusively. We've based a life expectancy of 79 on borrowing two-thirds of the cost. Now we have to transition to a system where the system has to make a profit. That means one-fourth or less (because those loans do have to get paid) of the money currently available for health care will be available then.

What's going to happen to the 401k generation when they learn their nest egg won't even buy them health care? When the government essentially announces you need to be a millionaire to live to 75, and if you want to reach 85 you better have $5 million. You need a joint replacement? Pony up $80,000 or you don't get one. You can't walk and are in agonizing pain every day? We don't care. Assisted living? LOLOLOL you think you can afford that? Here's a gun and some bullets, do society a favor.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:46 pm 
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I honestly do not think there is a way to save the system Xequecal, not without harsh harsh cuts. How harsh? Illegal immigrants get nothing, sorry for US citizens only. Convicted Criminal in Prison? Nothing, you spat on society society spits on you.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Hmm, that's interesting.

US life expectancy comparison: http://www.google.com/publicdata/explor ... dl=en&icfg


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 Post subject: Re: Obamacare Propoganda
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:51 pm 
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Having worked in medicine, I hate myself for saying this, but I think we almost need death panels, or simply let the market decide. I have watched so many expensive, major procedures done on non viable candidates because the family insists "everything must be done!" An example would be a valve replacement on a 97 year old dementia patient, but the insurance or medicare cleared it so we did it. Expanding on the nothing for Illegal immigrants we had a wonderful woman, personally, from Trinidad visiting her family have a CVA/+ MI and end up in the ICU...for 5+ months. She was a wonderfully nice woman, but very frail, we coded her multiple times trying to keep her alive. Finally the family worked out something to send her back to Trinidad were she died 3 days latter, and my hospital was stuck with 3+ million dollar bill (not counting DR's hours), resulting in one of our major reasons for closing oru Maternity and Delivery.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:52 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
Hmm, that's interesting.

US life expectancy comparison: http://www.google.com/publicdata/explor ... dl=en&icfg



Large diverse population, I honestly expected us to be a bit lower on the scale, and Go Swaziland! You are not on the bottom any more, were 15 is midlife!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:15 pm 
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The 97 year old dementia's patient's legal guardian should have every right to buy that procedure. however we have this mindset that "health insurance" = "all medical bills paid."

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 Post subject: Re: Obamacare Propoganda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:13 am 
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"Unlimited access to public roads"
"As many copies of Cleveland Scene magazine as they can carry"

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:17 am 
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Well, to be fair, while the tickets are free, they're probably limited and in demand.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:09 pm 
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And then they can sell them for bucks to pay for their artificial knees.

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