The Glade 4.0

As an adult, who has already seen the films, I'd say the benefit of watching them in the machete order is that the original feeling that you had from watching the movies is maintained. All of the "big reveals" are still preserved, even if you already know them. It starts with the characters you originally loved, and it ends with them.

That, and it will ingrain the order into your head so that when you show these movies to newcomers you will do it correctly.

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Les Zombis et les Loups-Garous!

It is just an awful movie that should be removed from history. The value is not having to watch it.

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Los Angeles Kings 2014 Stanley Cup Champions

"I love this **** team right here."
-Jonathan Quick

Kenobi/jinn v. Maul is arguably the best of the saber duels though (except perhaps kenobi v. Vader (in EP 3))

Vader vs. Luke in Return is the best lightsaber duel. Sure, the prequel duels are more flashy, but they aren't better.

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Los Angeles Kings 2014 Stanley Cup Champions

"I love this **** team right here."
-Jonathan Quick

I'd agree, except Vader vs. Kenobi *is* better.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Vader vs. Kenobi is garbage. I can't stand watching that slow-moving, sorry excuse for a fight.

Edit - talking about the old one.

Agreed. Kenobi/Jinn vs. Maul was visually impressive but there was zero emotional investment in it. Darth Maul was just some disposable bad guy with no backstory that randomly appeared a couple of times in the first half of the movie. Vader vs. Luke in RotJ, on the other hand, wasn't in the same class visually, but it was decent, and it had the full trilogy worth of backstory and emotional buildup behind it.

I wasn't.


Kenobi/Anakin (there, that better, Lenas?) is in the same class, visually, is set in a fantastic, exotic, dangerous, and exciting locale where environmental props are incorporated fluidly into the fight, and has *six* movies of emotional investment to build upon.

It speaks volumes that you go into the fight knowing the outcome, yet it's still a tense, nail-biting, emotional rollercoaster. The pain McGregor pours into that scene is palpable and gut-wrenching. The even match between master and pupil is awe-inspiring. The relentless ferocity of Anakin's strikes is intimidating. And the way Obi-Wan Kenobi weathers it all communicates, without a doubt, why Yoda speaks highly of his swordsmanship.

It *is* the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object, set to choreography and infused with boundless raw emotion.

In short, it's a breathtaking microcosm of the core-most relationship in the entire series.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

And yet the Voldemort/Dumbledore duel in HP5 bests any of them.

/flee

Ah, I needed a good laugh today. I appreciate that one!

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Les Zombis et les Loups-Garous!

Yeah. That is true, right up until "It's over Anakin. I have the high ground..."

Stupid, lame, ridiculous ending for such a great fight.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
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I totally agree. Right up until...



But, the best part about Machete order is, that you don't have the reference of Obi-wan jumping over Darth Maul in EXACTLY the same fashion Anakin is trying to do in RotS. That's my biggest beef with the whole "high ground" part of RotS. I mean, it's still a crappy ending to a spectacular duel, but at least you don't have this really jarring oversight gnawing at your subconscious.

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"I Live, I Love, I Slay, and I Am Content."
- Conan the Barbarian

Hayden Christensen ruins anything good about the duel on Mustafar. Every time he opens his mouth, I facepalm because of how terrible of an actor he is.

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Los Angeles Kings 2014 Stanley Cup Champions

"I love this **** team right here."
-Jonathan Quick

And he has been in enough other movies to know...it is him, not just the horrible script.

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Raell Kromwell

This is the only part of the end that does annoy me. It can be handwaved that Darth Maul wasn't expecting Obi-Wan's move, and that it was a move of last resort (you can't exactly disengage when you're clinging to a pipe -- that's called committing suicide to fall to your doom; Anakin could have retreated), but it requires some minor mental gymnastics to argue that.

On the other hand, "It's over, Anakin; I have the high ground!" is exactly how that fight should end. Obi-Wan is trying to end the fight by seizing a position of advantage so indisputable that Anakin would be forced to retreat or at least disengage so he could be reasoned with in the meantime.

Anakin, of course, arrogantly believes himself beyond such an advantage. Obi-Wan knows his pupil and companion well enough to read it in his face, even, hence "Don't try it!" or whatever the line was.

This was the only way Obi-Wan would end the fight, too. The position he'd put himself would not allow himself to recover his defense if he'd let Anakin complete his move unhindered. The overwhelming defense he'd set himself up for was rare for Obi-Wan (and the Soresu form he'd come to master); it was an proactive defense, rather than a reactive one.

Is it spoiled a bit by the fact that "the high ground" ended up being about 2 feet of height advantage? Sure. But we're in a magical fantasy space world with starfighters and mystical warrior-monks. Who are we to nitpick how their combat with scientifically impossible blades works?

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

The two of them traded high-ground a half dozen times in that duel, yet magically, Obi-wan's high ground automatically won? No.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

This. I'm fine with suspending disbelief to accept the rules of a fantastical universe, but those rules have to be internally consistent. We had just spent 15 minutes watching them perform incredible acrobatic feats, leaping dozens of feet in a single bound, executing multiple mid-air twists and landing with pinpoint precision, all while simultaneously engaging in swordplay. and yet now, because Obi-Wan is on ground a few feet higher than Anakin, "it's over?" Just not internally consistent. Also, my thought, every time I remember that scene, is that Anakin's response should have been, "Uh, yeah, unless I use this mobile platform I'm standing on to, you know, go a few feet further up the riverbank and jump off there."

Part of my problem with older swordfight choreography, is the lack of attention to detail. This is generally problematic of fight scenes in many older films. The problem decreased in the 70's and seemed to go away to a large degree during the mid-80s:

The problem is one of where blows are aimed. Now I'm not Monte (insert joke/snide comment here, but I'm specifically referring to his expertise in theatrical combat) But Episode IV, V & VI suffered from an aim problem. The characters aren't swinging their sabers at anyone. Vader parries blows that are no danger to him, because they seem primarily to be swinging at a spot 2' short of their opponent. Now, one could claim their feinting, but no, the blows are full on, put-your-back-into-it-and-spin wild swings of the saber.

Now its somewhat justified in that Luke had little to no training in saber combat. But Vader is arguably one of the best lightsaber combatants around. It just looks like they're swinging at air, (or more precisely they're swinging just so their sabers can connect and make that cool sound/flash) so there is little sense of actual combat.
Compare that with Episode I, II & III. The combatants are swinging for the body, head, arm.

I think your heightened tension in Episodes IV, V, VI comes more from a sense that you don't know the outcome. Whereas, we know going into fights with Maul, Skywalker, Dooku, Grevious that Kenobi wins or survives.

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I'm not saying they're perfect, but they're better than the original.

Thank you, Moo. I was thinking of that as I was reading Theriov's post.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

I don't have access to the original trilogy shots right now but Luke has a couple swings that miss by a good 4'

Granted Ep. I does have at least one block by Qui-Gon where he actually has his sword strike checked by nothing, but the sword work in Ep I is fast enough (partially by the removal of frames IIRC) that you don't notice some of these errors.

Epi VI has Luke swinging the sword like a drunk monkey trying to bring down flies with a baseball bat. In fact, after he's got Vader sprawled on the ground, he's hammering down on Vader's sword repeatedly like he's trying to drive a railway spike.

edit: some of those evasions though could be justified too by them using a form of precognition. They might be likely places the sword could have come through if they're adjusting to the 'most likely' strike of the sword. But the video does make some valid points.