The Glade 4.0

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:26 pm 
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Apparently, he in company with Charlie


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:45 pm 
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Hmmm...

So, if assoiations, no matter how deep, with conspiracy movements is grounds for firing, then can we go about firing anyone in government that has supported either explicitly or implicitly, the Birther conspiracy movement?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:50 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Hmmm...

So, if assoiations, no matter how deep, with conspiracy movements is grounds for firing, then can we go about firing anyone in government that has supported either explicitly or implicitly, the Birther conspiracy movement?


No problem, as long as the guilt-by-association-fallacy-as-grounds-for-firing goes both ways.

Bye-bye Obama, most of his cabinet, his czars, Biden, the Congress, and probably several Supreme Court Justices.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:30 am 
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I didn't start this guilt by association crap. I'm just commenting that it doesn't seem to cut both ways. It's another example of he irrationality I have been talking about. Liberal association with conspiracy theory = grounds for firing and serious investigation into something that's been around since Nixon. Conservative association with conspiracy theory = very serious questions that must be raises.

Don't you see the double standard? People at town hall meetings screaming about death panels while wearing assault rifles are people that are somehow celebrated as heroes on the right.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:42 am 
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Who celebrated them as heroes? Nobody. The only thing said about such people is that they were not acting outside of their right to do so.

If a man stands on a street corner and villifies fornication, I do not celebrate him as a hero, nor did I feel the need to revoke his right to do so. I'm sorry, but not everything falls into view of the left or right eye in such a polarized fashion.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:51 pm 
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That was not the only thing said about them. That was the cheap defense used for a sickening act on the part of the maniac with the assault rifle.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:11 pm 
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So maniacs undertake their rights?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:37 pm 
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Monte wrote:
That was not the only thing said about them. That was the cheap defense used for a sickening act on the part of the maniac with the assault rifle.


What "sickening act?"

The wholly legal, non-disruptive, violence-averting act of an African-American citizen of the United States?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:58 pm 
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Monte wrote:
I didn't start this guilt by association crap. I'm just commenting that it doesn't seem to cut both ways. It's another example of he irrationality I have been talking about. Liberal association with conspiracy theory = grounds for firing and serious investigation into something that's been around since Nixon. Conservative association with conspiracy theory = very serious questions that must be raises.

Don't you see the double standard? People at town hall meetings screaming about death panels while wearing assault rifles are people that are somehow celebrated as heroes on the right.


I thought Monty was leaving Hellfire. Sheesh, this crap is so stupid. I mean seriously, as if some stupid conspiracy about whether Obama was born in the U.S. or not is in any way similar to believing that the Bush administration orchestrated the 9/11 attacks.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:47 am 
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Monte wrote:
That was not the only thing said about them. That was the cheap defense used for a sickening act on the part of the maniac with the assault rifle.


What act? I didn't really even comment on that thread in 3.0 because there wasn't exactly a dirth of information on the subject available. All I said was, if he had a gun in public, was liscensed to own and carry the gun as local and state law applied, there was nothing wrong with it. It also served very little function.

That's the extent of my thoughts on it then and is now. So please, stop making vague statements about alleged statements and either say exactly what was said and who said it if you are going to keep flapping about like a chicken with no head.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:20 am 
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DFK! wrote:
Monte wrote:
That was not the only thing said about them. That was the cheap defense used for a sickening act on the part of the maniac with the assault rifle.


What "sickening act?"

The wholly legal, non-disruptive, violence-averting act of an African-American citizen of the United States?


The sickening act of bringing a loaded assault rifle to a presidential event. It was not violence averting, it was intimidation and bullying. And so were the dozen of other people bringing loaded firearms to a peaceful protest.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:24 am 
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Piss, vinegar and irrationality. Everyone pay attention to Monty or he will just make wilder and wilder claims until someone does.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:27 am 
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Monte wrote:
DFK! wrote:
Monte wrote:
That was not the only thing said about them. That was the cheap defense used for a sickening act on the part of the maniac with the assault rifle.


What "sickening act?"

The wholly legal, non-disruptive, violence-averting act of an African-American citizen of the United States?


The sickening act of bringing a loaded assault rifle to a presidential event. It was not violence averting, it was intimidation and bullying. And so were the dozen of other people bringing loaded firearms to a peaceful protest.


That's not illegal though and caused no harm or damage.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:28 am 
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I never said it was illegal. I said it was sickening. It's not illegal for the KKK to spew their hate in the public square, but it's still sickening.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:31 am 
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Right, but you indicated they celebrated as heroes in this thread, to which I was responding. I only said the majority of commentary stated they were doing nothing illegal. You just concurred.

So what is your defense to assert your position that people were "celebrating" this display when most people's comments were simply in regards to the legality of the situation.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:59 am 
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Monte wrote:
I never said it was illegal. I said it was sickening. It's not illegal for the KKK to spew their hate in the public square, but it's still sickening.



Kind of like a far left, insane, cowardly lib attacking a new poster is sickening.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:47 pm 
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Monte wrote:
I never said it was illegal. I said it was sickening. It's not illegal for the KKK to spew their hate in the public square, but it's still sickening.


What's sickening about it?

Its just a dude with a gun.

It would have been ok had he a sword?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:17 pm 
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Aegnor wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/03/green-jobs-advisers-past-stir-trouble-white-house-critical-time/

I'm amazed that some people are stupid enough to believe the 9/11 truther garbage. I'm even more shocked that Obama would select one of them for his advisor.


So I'm puzzled how you get that he's a "truther" when the very article you link goes on at length about the fact that he denies being a truther.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:19 pm 
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Aizle:

For the same reasons you casually dismiss the evidence against him based on his assertions, rather than the statements and behavior that earned him said appellation?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:29 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Aizle:

For the same reasons you casually dismiss the evidence against him based on his assertions, rather than the statements and behavior that earned him said appellation?


So in short you believe he's lying about not reading the petition thoroughly? Or is there some other evidence that you're refering to?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:29 pm 
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Aizle:

Given his recorded statements, yes, I believe he's lying about not knowing the content of the petition.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:31 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Aizle:

Given his recorded statements, yes, I believe he's lying about not knowing the content of the petition.


What recorded statements? There weren't any in that article that I could see that were related to being a Truther outside of the petition thing and his denial of being one.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:13 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
So in short you believe he's lying about not reading the petition thoroughly

You asked Khross, but yes, I believe he is lying about not reading the petition. It is the cynic in me, but the groups generally behind the petition fits his causes and political leanings.

However, I am also perfectly willing to go along with maybe he isn't lying about reading the petition. In which case, why in hell do we need more people in government signing things they don't read?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:22 pm 
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Monte wrote:
I never said it was illegal. I said it was sickening. It's not illegal for the KKK to spew their hate in the public square, but it's still sickening.


Actually it is illegal to commit slander and libel. It is also illegal to perform the acts of violence the KKK does. And I am unsure if the "fighting words" clause would apply as well.

But it is sickening, although legal to assert your desired feelings of someone onto them and then insult them for their positions, which you gave them.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:30 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Khross wrote:
Aizle:

For the same reasons you casually dismiss the evidence against him based on his assertions, rather than the statements and behavior that earned him said appellation?


So in short you believe he's lying about not reading the petition thoroughly? Or is there some other evidence that you're refering to?



Since the petition is not more than a page long, and the most relevant bits are repeated twice in the first two paragraphs - I would have to conclude that he's lying.
Spoiler:
The Statement

We Want Real Answers About 9/11

On August 31, 2004, Zogby International, the official North American political polling agency for Reuters, released a poll that found nearly half (49.3%) of New York City residents and 41% of those in New York state believe US leaders had foreknowledge of impending 9/11 attacks and "consciously failed" to act. Of the New York City residents, 66% called for a new probe of unanswered questions by Congress or the New York Attorney General.

In connection with this news, we have assembled 100 notable Americans and 40 family members of those who died to sign this 9/11 Statement, which calls for immediate public attention to unanswered questions that suggest that people within the current administration may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.

We want truthful answers to questions such as:

Why were standard operating procedures for dealing with hijacked airliners not followed that day?
Why were the extensive missile batteries and air defenses reportedly deployed around the Pentagon not activated during the attack?
Why did the Secret Service allow Bush to complete his elementary school visit, apparently unconcerned about his safety or that of the schoolchildren?
Why hasn't a single person been fired, penalized, or reprimanded for the gross incompetence we witnessed that day?
Why haven't authorities in the U.S. and abroad published the results of multiple investigations into trading that strongly suggested foreknowledge of specific details of the 9/11 attacks, resulting in tens of millions of dollars of traceable gains?
Why has Sibel Edmonds, a former FBI translator who claims to have knowledge of advance warnings, been publicly silenced with a gag order requested by Attorney General Ashcroft and granted by a Bush-appointed judge?
How could Flight 77, which reportedly hit the Pentagon, have flown back towards Washington D.C. for 40 minutes without being detected by the FAA's radar or the even superior radar possessed by the US military?
How were the FBI and CIA able to release the names and photos of the alleged hijackers within hours, as well as to visit houses, restaurants, and flight schools they were known to frequent?
What happened to the over 20 documented warnings given our government by 14 foreign intelligence agencies or heads of state?
Why did the Bush administration cover up the fact that the head of the Pakistani intelligence agency was in Washington the week of 9/11 and reportedly had $100,000 wired to Mohamed Atta, considered the ringleader of the hijackers?
Why did the 911 Commission fail to address most of the questions posed by the families of the victims, in addition to almost all of the questions posed here?
Why was Philip Zelikow chosen to be the Executive Director of the ostensibly independent 911 Commission although he had co-authored a book with Condoleezza Rice?
Those who are demanding deeper inquiry now number in the hundreds of thousands, including a former member of the first Bush administration, a retired Air Force colonel, a European parliamentarian, families of the victims, highly respected authors, investigative journalists, peace and justice leaders, former Pentagon staff, and the National Green Party.

As Americans of conscience, we ask for four things:

An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer
Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry.
Given the importance of the coming election, we feel it is imperative that these questions be addressed publicly, honestly, and rigorously so that Americans may exercise their democratic rights with full awareness.

In closing, we pray and hope for the strength to approach this subject with wisdom and compassion so that we may heal from the wounds inflicted on that terrible day.

Signed,

Signatories


It's not like there's thousands of people who signed this thing. It's scope is limited to ~160 people.

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