The Glade 4.0

Pretty straightforward poll. What do you think will happen?

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

I think they'll overturn the individual mandate and leave most of the rest intact.

Of course, isn't the rest of the program kinda screwed without the individual mandate?

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

I don't know. I don't think the mandate is constitutional. Not sure that's worth anything though. A better question might be if it stands where does that power end.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Mandate for sure I think(and hope) which will hopefully kill the rest of it.

Could be a bad week for the Golfer-in-Chief. They already struck down the WH challenge of proof of citzenship in AZ.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

My hope is that they'll leave it as-is, probably wont happen.

Out of curiosity, has anyone proffered an alternative solution to the PPACA, one that accomplishes the much-needed same but without the supposedly disagreeable elements like individual mandates?

There's been proposals, but here's the problem. Some people disagree with the "much needed" aspect of extending coverage, others say what their plan will accomplish is a bit over-sold (like Obama's plan IMO), etc. It's not an easy problem.

I think they'll strike down the mandate, and other provisions, due to the argument by the Gov't that the mandate is necessary for other provisions. Other items will remain intact. I think overall it will remain intact, but will require some fixing.

Without a mandate, the only options to deal with those who can't (or won't) purchase insurance is to either let them mooch off the people who are paying, or let them die. There's not really a middle ground. The current system of, "you don't have to buy insurance, but the hospital still has to treat you if you get sick" is absurdly broken and is the reason health care costs go up by more than 10% a year. You'd have to get rid of Medicaid too, or the sick people will just quit their jobs to qualify for it.

I think obesity is a lot more of a factor then the "I've got the sniffles I'm going to the ER" crowd. Or that the current government subsudized insurances undercut the doctors actual costs- which of course leads to overbilling by the doctor in order to stay open. In short there are so many factors that combine to the current state of healthcare in the US, a government run option will always fail unless the government were to control almost everything to do with healthcare.

The other option of course is for the federal government to get out of the way, and allow individual States to deal with their populations as the citizens of that state see fit. I would hope that option would allow cross state competition. I mean there are so many examples of insurance working for the consumer- I can't see why the Democrats would try to pound this square peg in such a round hole.

I'd hope that the whole Act is struck down, as the mandate was non severable from the rest of the act, and as an overreach of federal power. What I really think will happen is that the mandate will be struck, the Court will give them time to "fix" the act to bring it into compliance. Which I also think is the best election year scenerio for the Republicans- because costs will HAVE to rise for insurance companies in order to be compliant.

I think the whole AFA was a gambit by Obama. I think he was hoping that there was going to be clamoring for single payer, and this act was intentionally left lacking in order to disrupt the current system enough to make that leap. Unfortunatly (or fortunatly) things didn't fall into place, and there was just too much resistance.

I mean hell, they lost Ted Kennedys seat to a Republican who campagined on being a vote against Obamacare.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

"Healthcare is BROKEN, we HAVE to do SOMETHING", does not justify doing "anything"...

Surely, the notion of "Democrats want to pound this square peg into your round holes because they're the only place to get square pegs, and thus they want nothing more than to convince you that you need square pegs..." was pretty well understood around here.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Wait, what?

I don't think I'm comfortable with anyone pounding any kind of peg into my hole, square or round.

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Los Angeles Kings 2014 Stanley Cup Champions

"I love this **** team right here."
-Jonathan Quick

Again, you assume that everyone with a health problem will die.

Most people will not quit their jobs to qualify for medicaid either.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Not everyone, but it's fairly likely. You can die from a urinary tract infection if you don't get any antibiotics, and everyone gets those.

I had mine removed to avoid just this scenario.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Seems about right.

I think its always important to ask why they did what they did. The mandate being unseverable - I have a very hard time believing that was a mistake considering this was touted as the president's signature legislation.

So are there any theories why the AFA was crafted how it was?

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

No, it's not "fairly likely". Most people who get sick will not die from that particular event.

All of them will die eventually, even with health care.

This is particularly hilarious in light of the fact that there's an entire cult in this country revolving around rejecting vaccination and another involving rejecting modern medicine for childbirth, to say nothing of the breast feeding mafia.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Those are some nice breasts you got there, be a shame if something happened to them.

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Two reasons: (1) a mandate to buy insurance was thought to be more palatable to the public than a new tax; and (2) the mandate was originally a Republican idea, with a fair number of Republicans advocating it (right up until the moment Democrats embraced it, of course, at which point it became a socialist plot to destroy America, mom, and apple pie), so the hope was that it would help secure at least some bipartisan support.

Let them die. Spoken by someone who hasn't had healthcare the last 5 months.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Oh and has had a condition that could prove fatal within months.

I don't want to be stolen from and I don't want to steal from others.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

In your legal opinion, why make the mandate unseverable from the rest of the act? Especially when the mandate was going to have a constitutional challenge put to it.

I think ill go back to blaming teddy and his HMO schemes. The more people between the doctor and the patient = more cost.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

I agree with this, my only problem is what if anything will it be replaced with should it fall.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe