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 Post subject: Social Media Roleplaying
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:03 am 
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The Dancing Cat
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http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... ernet.html

Long and short of the story above a Kent State Student created a fake person (11 years ago) who happens to be the most interesting and tragic person in the world. Since then she has texted and emailed people, created facebook pages, blogs, used other people's pictures to represent himself and his fake family and championed a cause for a fake person with a rare type of cancer (that raised money for a real tragedy).

She clearly did some good raising money for charities but at the same time she reached deep into people's lives via text and email to toy with people's emotions, but is it any worse than an emotional novel told via an 11 year serial? As people who primarily met through online RPGs, does this cross a line for you?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:15 am 
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Sure, it crosses a line. It crosses the "don't give this person money line". That's about it. Otherwise, it's nothing more than a good lesson for people reading the internet.

The only thing that's too far is if she used any photos or personal data from others without their permission.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:19 am 
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Sorry I wasn't clear but it appears that the money actually went to the charity, not the pretender.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:43 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
Sorry I wasn't clear but it appears that the money actually went to the charity, not the pretender.


I assumed that. Otherwise you're talking about fraud.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:28 pm 
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You're still talking about fraud.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:37 pm 
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It still seems like fraud. Even if the money was given to the national endowment for this kind of cancer research, it's still under false pretenses. If the organization had actively solicited donations in this way, they could have lost their protections I'd think.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:14 pm 
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Was the people’s lives better because they were touched by this girl, posing as another?

Guess what…
Spoiler:
The internet lies


I fail to see how this is fraud, as the girl herself never sent out to profit in the first place. She’s just a misguided soul who got tangled in her own web and couldn’t let go.

We’ve all pretended to be who we’re not when we were kids, it’s part of growing up, it’s why some of us role play. She just did it in the wrong forum…


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:35 pm 
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Yeah... Your wanting to turn her story into a daytime talk show special doesn't change what she did from fraud into not fraud.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:17 pm 
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She asked a bunch of people to donate to a charity. Whether there was a gooey, heart-string pulling story attached to it does not mean the act of donating was fraud. It would only be fraud if you donated to a charity which was not the charity you intended to donate to.

So yes, she's a fraud based on her creation of a false personality. But no, she's not a fraud in the legal sense. (at least not here).

It's like your best friend asking you to donate to Obama, just cause someone told you to, doesnt mean you should. Shouldn't there be some self responsibility in the way you spend your money?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:34 pm 
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She solicited money from people under false pretence. The money didn't go where she said it was going, and to make matters worse the place she said it was going doesn't even exist. That's fraud.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:42 pm 
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That's not how I read it...

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Emily didn't appear to seek financial gain. If anything, she reached into her own pocket to order and distribute the wristbands. Even after the fictional Dana died, the fictional family asked that contributions be made to Alex's Lemonade Stand, a legitimate cancer charity based in Pennsylvania.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:52 pm 
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Whether or not she sought personal gain is irrelevant. She solicited money under false pretences.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:32 am 
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I guess thats the difference in opinion. While you feel she's in the wrong to solicit, I feel the people who got solicited should have been more responsible with their own money.

As I stated in my first post, the internet lies... If their only reason for donating was cause someone on the internet said they should, then they will find bigger issues in life.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:49 am 
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Lydiaa wrote:
I guess thats the difference in opinion. While you feel she's in the wrong to solicit, I feel the people who got solicited should have been more responsible with their own money.

As I stated in my first post, the internet lies... If their only reason for donating was cause someone on the internet said they should, then they will find bigger issues in life.

...

So you don't feel people who commit acts that are actually crimes on the internet should be held accountable? That's retarded.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:55 am 
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There was no crime. She said my son has random rare cancer, please donate to random rare cancer fund and people did. She lied about her son having cancer, but she didn't touch any funds, she was not even a middleman, she asked people to go to a charitable website and make donations.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:58 am 
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Again you have not told me what 'crimes' she's actually committed. Is she a criminal for telling people to donate to a charity? Does she suddenly become one when she makes up a personality to tell people to donate to charity? How do you feel about the Celebrities fronting for charities when they are not actually touched by the issue related to the charities, but claim they are?

If it was actual crimes, like hacking into someone's computer to obtain confidential information and steal their identity, I can understand.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:30 am 
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I don't see the disctinction between what was done here and say, Obama using the fictional "Julia" to sway peoples decisions in a direction.

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 Post subject: Social Media Roleplaying
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:36 am 
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Julia is openly fictitious?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:52 am 
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Quote:
fraud
   [frawd] Show IPA
noun
1.
deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.
2.
a particular instance of such deceit or trickery: mail fraud; election frauds.
3.
any deception, trickery, or humbug: That diet book is a fraud and a waste of time.
4.
a person who makes deceitful pretenses; sham; poseur.


#1 seems most applicable, and requires profit of some kind. I don't see it here. It's a gray area, to be sure.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:11 am 
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Rorinthas wrote:
Julia is openly fictitious?


The life of Julia. Take a look how President Obamas policies help one woman over her lifetime- and how Mitt Romney would change her story.
http://www.barackobama.com/life-of-julia/

No disclaimers I can find. And it's being represented as facts.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:08 pm 
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What she did was obviously deceptive. She doesn't seem to have personally profited from this, but that's a red herring. The critical question for our legal system is whether this deception had a material impact on those deceived. That is, would her (alleged) victims still have donated their money had she not invented and promoted this false persona?

Although she was soliciting for a charity in which she held no actual, personal interest, she implied her false persona was among those individuals who were beneficiaries of the charity in question. People may have donated money at least in part because they believed that in some small, indirect way it would benefit her false persona personally, and not "merely" out of a desire to promote the welfare of the charity's beneficiaries at large.

That she didn't personally benefit from her deception and that she didn't misrepresent the charity itself doesn't entirely dodge the issue of fraud. Bottom line: if her deception convinced people to donate money who would not have otherwise done so, then she committed fraud.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:22 am 
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Stathol wrote:
Bottom line: if her deception convinced people to donate money who would not have otherwise done so, then she committed fraud.


No, it's more complicated than that. Maybe, depending on the law, you are partially correct. But you'd have to show that these individuals would not have donated IF informed of the issue thoroughly, but told that her persona was fake. That's more or less impossible to prove.

I'm sure many of the donors never heard of the charity previously, so would not have donated. That's not enough to declare fraud.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Fraud Law & Legal Definition
Fraud is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage. Fraud may also be made by an omission or purposeful failure to state material facts, which nondisclosure makes other statements misleading.

To constitute fraud, a misrepresentation or omission must also relate to an 'existing fact', not a promise to do something in the future, unless the person who made the promise did so without any present intent to perform it or with a positive intent not to perform it. Promises to do something in the future or a mere expression of opinion cannot be the basis of a claim of fraud unless the person stating the opinion has exclusive or superior knowledge of existing facts which are inconsistent with such opinion. The false statement or omission must be material, meaning that it was significant to the decision to be made.

Sometimes, it must be shown that the plaintiff's reliance was justifiable, and that upon reasonable inquiry would not have discovered the truth of the matter. For injury or damage to be the result of fraud, it must be shown that, except for the fraud, the injury or damage would not have occurred.

To constitute fraud the misrepresentation or omission must be made knowingly and intentionally, not as a result of mistake or accident, or in negligent disregard of its truth or falsity. Also, the plaintiff must prove that the defendant intended for the plaintiff to rely upon the misrepresentation and/or omission; that the plaintiff did in fact rely upon the misrepresentation and/or omission; and that the plaintiff suffered injury or damage as a result of the fraud. Damages may include punitive damages as a punishment or public example due to the malicious nature of the fraud.

There are many state and federal laws to regulate fraud in numerous areas. Some of the areas most heavily litigated include consumer fraud, corporate fraud, and insurance fraud.


1 She knew she was lying.
2 She intended that they give their money to the charity, based on the story she made up.
3 These people gave due to her story, as she intended) Although, Arathain's right in that this would be the hardest to prove (but since when does proving anything matter here?).
4 The people she defrauded are out the money the coerced them into giving.

Seems pretty clear to me; YMMV.

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