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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:21 am 
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Deputies shoot, kill man after knocking on wrong door

UPDATED 12:26 PM EDT Jul 16, 2012

http://www.wesh.com/news/central-flo...g/-/index.html

LAKE COUNTY, Fla. -

Lake County Sheriff's Office deputies shot and killed a man they assumed was an attempted murder suspect on Sunday, but they now know they shot the wrong man.

In the early morning hours, deputies knocked on 26-year-old Andrew Lee Scott's door without identifying themselves as law enforcement officers. Scott answered the door with a gun in his hand.

"When we knocked on the door, the door opened and the occupant of that apartment was pointing a gun at deputies and that's when we opened fire and killed him," Lt. John Herrell said.

Deputies thought they were confronting Jonathan Brown, a man accused of attempted murder. Brown was spotted at the Blueberry Hills Apartment complex and his motorcycle was parked across from Andrew Scott's front door.

"It's just a bizarre set of circumstances. The bottom line is, you point a gun at a deputy sheriff or police office, you're going to get shot," Herrell said.

Residents said the unannounced knock at the door at 1:30 a.m. may be the reason why the tragedy happened.

"He was the wrong guy and he got shot and killed anyway. There's fault on both sides. I think more so on the county," Ryan Perry said. "I can understand why he [the deputy] did it, but it should have never gone down like that," Perry said.

Brown was arrested near the same building where Scott was shot. Brown and another suspect in the same case, Anthony Rodriguez, were booked into the Lake County Jail over the weekend.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:47 am 
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And this is why when you knock on someones door at 3 AM, you announce that you're from the Sheriff's office.

Sorry, but I'm going to lay the blame pretty completely on them.

The occupant is well within their rights to open their door with a gun in hand for safety.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:54 am 
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NephyrS wrote:
And this is why when you knock on someones door at 3 AM, you announce that you're from the Sheriff's office.

Sorry, but I'm going to lay the blame pretty completely on them.

The occupant is well within their rights to open their door with a gun in hand for safety.

Exactly.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:03 pm 
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I don't know how the Sheriff 'announcing' that they are the Sheriff makes any real difference.

Anyone can shout through a door that they are with the Sheriffs department... that doesn't mean they are.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:20 pm 
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Article wrote:
"When we knocked on the door, the door opened and the occupant of that apartment was pointing a gun at deputies and that's when we opened fire and killed him," Lt. John Herrell said.


There is a difference between having a gun in hand, and having it pointed at the officers.

That said, the deputies should have announced themselves.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:25 pm 
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If I open the door with a gun in hand, chances are it's going to be pointed out the door. That's kinda the point.

And there's a difference between "pointing in the general direction", and up and aggressively pointing at them.

And announcing Sheriff through the door gives the guy half asleep at 1:30 am a chance to think whether or not it's wise to open the door with a gun.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:38 pm 
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Idiots all around.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:41 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Idiots all around.


Yeah, kinda my thoughts on this as well.

I mean hell, if someone knocks on my door at 1:30am, I'm going to look through the window or peep hole to see who the hell it is before I open the door. If I see uniforms and a squad, I'd have set the gun down before opening the door.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:59 pm 
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Have them tried for murder. This is not just an unfortunate tragedy. Guns are perfectly legal, and having one in your hand and pointed out the door when a stranger knocks at 1:30am is not unreasonable.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:05 pm 
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I would say manslaughter would be a more likely charge.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:37 pm 
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Aizle-

Not all doors have either windows or peepholes.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:40 pm 
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No but it's a safe assumption that all houses with front doors have windows with which to look out of.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:41 pm 
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This was an apartment complex, wasn't it?

And I've been to apartment complexes with no first floor front facing windows.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:44 pm 
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It's certainly not the norm.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:59 pm 
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Most apartment doors don't have windows facing out into a hallway... But most do have peepholes.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:08 pm 
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I guarantee you that if they didn't announce, they weren't standing in front of the peephole. Now, with that in mind, it's 1:30 AM, someone knocks on the door and is avoiding the peephole. Gun in hand, aimed at the door.

Regardless, opening the door without first looking through the peep hole is not a capital offense.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:35 pm 
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You know, as I read threads like this, I keep going back to this.

I've never lived in a place where I would even think about answering the door, regardless of the hour, with a gun in my hand.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:03 pm 
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I don't live in an area like that, but I've stayed with plenty of friends who do.

And I've answered the door with a shotgun before.

Living in the country, I've also had plenty of times that weren't answering the door, but were definitely going out to check on noises/see what the dogs were barking about where I took a gun along.

On the farm I usually had two pistols I took with me- a .22 revolver loaded with rat-shot for the typical animal menaces, and a Walther PPK loaded with regular .22 for the rest. Either that or a double barreled shotgun, one side loaded with birdshot and the other loaded with buckshot.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
You know, as I read threads like this, I keep going back to this.

I've never lived in a place where I would even think about answering the door, regardless of the hour, with a gun in my hand.


But I'm sure you agree that there are places where, arguably, that's a consideration. So you're biased. Just realize that when you're making judgements. Also, you don't know what that guy did that day. Maybe he busted up some guy beating on his wife, and was wondering if he was being paid a visit. There's lots of reasons to answer the door with a gun at 1:30 am. Not too many for shooting a man doing so, after failing to announce yourself.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:29 pm 
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If one feels the need to arm themselves and point said weapon at the person knocking at their door @ 1:30 am, why open the door in the first place if you are that scared to do so?

That being said, if I heard a knocking at my door at 1:30 a.m. I would endeavor to find out who the hell it is LONG before I would load my shotgun and answer the door thusly armed. If they don't identify themselves and keep knocking, I call 911. If they identify themselves as the police, then I'd proceed cautiously.

I think I agree most with Lenas. Idiocy abounds on both sides here.

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Last edited by Foamy on Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:31 pm 
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NephyrS wrote:
I don't live in an area like that, but I've stayed with plenty of friends who do.

And I've answered the door with a shotgun before.

Living in the country, I've also had plenty of times that weren't answering the door, but were definitely going out to check on noises/see what the dogs were barking about where I took a gun along.

On the farm I usually had two pistols I took with me- a .22 revolver loaded with rat-shot for the typical animal menaces, and a Walther PPK loaded with regular .22 for the rest. Either that or a double barreled shotgun, one side loaded with birdshot and the other loaded with buckshot.


Same - however, I've never know an officer in a farming town that would think twice about a shotgun.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:32 pm 
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Jebus. There's more than the FDA-recommended daily allotment of stupid in this story.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:33 pm 
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Foamy wrote:
If one feels the need to arm themselves and point said weapon at the person knocking at their door @ 1:30 am, why open the door in the first place if you are that scared to do so?


He felt like it? Clearly, opening up the door w/o a gun was unsafe. Opening up the door with a gun got it over the hump to safe enough. That's his call to make.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:33 pm 
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Because someone won't leave off with the knocking?

It's well within a persons rights to open the door, while standing on property they own, holding a gun.

We can argue for days on whether they *needed* to, or whether they should have, or what else they could have done, but it really isn't that pertinent to the case.

He was well within his rights, innocent of any crimes as far as we can tell, and was shot inside of his own house by the sheriff's deputy.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:43 pm 
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I won't argue that he was within his rights. But had he exercised a little caution and common sense, this likely wouldn't have happened.

I am all for the castle doctrine and, yes someone incessantly knocking at your door at 1:30 a.m. is cause for alarm. But to answer said door with a gun pointed is a sure way to get shot whether it was the police or a burglar.

He was an idiot for doing what he did, and the cops made a mistake that initiated the fatal event.

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