The Glade 4.0

But the failures have access to those roads bridges and teachers too.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Why do you believe he said this?

This is a reiteration of Elizabeth Warrens comments:



So it's not a "by the way, businesses use roads" or a "the more you know!" PSA. It's a prelude to raising taxes on businesses and "the rich" (queue evil music). Not to mention, how big of a douche do you need to be to tell people they didnt build their businesses. My Dad owned a small business and it's no easy task, quite risky. At best it was a stupid thing to say even conceeding that yeah, infrastructure is great. Small government not no government.

So sure society in general and infrastructure is needed. Society =/= government and infrastructure like roads, police and fire are State functions not federal. Add to that the fact that businesses already pay more than their fair share in taxes and the question again comes up: why did he say this?

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

Of course you're amused as its your defense against realizing your own cognitive dissonance. You need to force everyone into the collective you've imagined because you've imagined what makes you feel better.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

I don't see a disconnect between the two. The latter is simply the mechanism by which he's proposing we pursue the former.


I think that's a misinterpretation of what he said, Dash. Did you watch the full clip of that section of his speech or just hear/read the quote from Romney's ad? When I watched the actual clip, it seemed pretty clear to me that the line "you didn't build that" was a reference to the background infrastructure and institutions of the country, not to the owners' businesses.

/snicker

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Holy shitsnacks!

Well obviously those road bridges and teachers were racist

Ops, wrong thread

It is amusing that those racist bridges and teachers are not against Asians, guess you guys and gals are not actual minorities!

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

I agree there is no disconnect. He is clearly saying "we get a cut of your business". Again we being the federal "we" in this case and of course, the amount is whatever he says it should be regardless of the fact that business owners are taxpayers and already paid as much as anyone else to build the roads. The roads built by local property and sales taxes.

Not many things fire me up politically like this sort of bullshit. He's telling the people who are out there doing things, being productive, creating jobs, paying more than everyone else in taxes that... YOU OWE ME. The only reason he's saying it by the way is to score political points. His tax increases wont do much for the deficit but it will let him say he's making "the rich pay their fair share". **** this guy, and I'm not an Obama hater, just an Obama disagreer

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

I think you may be confusing necessity and sufficiency. I don't read it as saying being smart and hard working is irrelevant - just that it is not sufficient, I.e it is not a solo endeavour.

I.e
It is necessary to be smart and work hard. It is also necessary to have some luck and some help. Our success is not entirely our own.

It is a political discussion. Redundant statements are redundant.

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But of course nobody does anything in a society on their own, that's stating the obvious. Is the federal government the embodiment of help though? Who helps? Other businesses, family, friends, neighborhoods, social clubs, churches... civil groups. The LOCAL governments role is to provide basic infrastructure. Everyone has access to that infrastructure.

It's quite clear he's attacking people who own businesses. There is no other way to read it. FOrget the "you didnt build that" for a minute, he's scolding business owners saying they owe the federal government when this nation was founded on exactly the opposite.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

If he's targeting anyone it's large businesses and the very wealthy. Any other interpretation is your conservative bias getting it's undies in a bunch.

Isn't it just as easy to say any interpretation that YOU make is just a blind defense of your boy and his policies? We all have bias. Your lib bias is just as heavy as any conservative bias on this board.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

My interpretation of his comments is based off of the actual words he used and the context of the ENTIRE speech. So, no I don't think so.

It should be noted, I don't have any problem with people disagreeing with his statement or thinking that his arguments are wrong. My issue is that folks here are not actually listening to what he actually said and understanding the full speech, and then taking those small parts they listened to and twisting them into something that he did NOT say or mean.

If you've got A BUSINESS

Nope, not just large businesses.

But, we are...you just don't like or agree with our opinions and interpretation of his comments...you are now basically saying that you and only people who agree with you TRUELY understand what he said and that everyone else is just playing politics. It doesn't work like that.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

No, Nitefox, you really aren't. But keep on believing that if it makes you happy. I for one gave up actually convincing anyone of anything here a long while ago.

Thanks for proving my point *******. You are basically doing the equvilant of "I'm taking my ball and going home".

What a piece of **** you are.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Thanks for proving my point. If you look at the text of the speech and look at the rest of the context, you'll find some more information that qualifies that particular section that you're quoting out of context.

And we're devolving into name calling again.....

And quitting the glade would be the equivalent of 'taking his ball and going home' (we don't know anyone here who's done THAT or anything ) he's just stating that he doesn't expect to convince you of anything, not that he's leaving. (that's not directed at any one person, we have tons of people on all sides who've dramatically walked out stating they're done with the glade) Most come back at some time or other.

Aizle:

I'm afraid you're the one taking Obama's comments out of context and spinning them for personal gain: our sitting president is demonstrably hostile toward small business, independent entrepreneurs, and wealth generation. While the comment itself was a meaningless piece of political glad-handing, the crux of Nitefox's arguments or Dash's disagreement; the genesis if their disgust is in his policies; and Obama's policies are hostile toward small business, independent entrepreneurs, and wealth generation. We have 4 years of Presidential policy that has decimated the private sector; we have 4 years of Presidential policy that have increased the barriers to entry for small businesses and profitability; we have 4 years of Presidential policy predicated on the thought that the "people" are a never-ending source of free credit and capital for a financially irresponsible nitwit who has refused to submit a budget to Congress since his first year.

The comment was stupid and ill-spoken, but it's little more than campaign speech. What it does, however, is give people a focus point for all of the policy decisions he's made that give truth to their understanding of his words. It speaks to his delusional understanding of economics and the disastrous disease that's eating at the developed world. The Law of Supply and Demand doesn't go away if you ignore it; it doesn't cease to apply if you don't believe in it.

Resources are finite.

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I have, and no I didn't. Feel free to show your work.

A good article summing up my feelings on this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html



I think that sums it up. Yes we all contribute to infrastructure and that is a long standing function of government. As with many things, it's not so much what politicians say it's how they leverage that into what they are doing or how they will twist it according to their ideology.

I think this will be debated through the election in conjunction with the economy. While it does really annoy me, even I am not looking forward to hearing "you didnt build that" repeated non stop for 3 months. I do like the debate though, I think it's an important one.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

Household income > $250,000 = very wealthy?

Actually I just realized it, as Obama understands business, in his very limited sense. Success is dependent on some one else. His idea of a business model is to receive a federal grant, aka Solyndra.

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore