The Glade 4.0

I honestly can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. If it was the university's education department, would it be an education issue? Was the Ft. Hood shooting a military issue? Columbine a high school issue? I sorta find all of these as far, far secondary issues to the crimes committed. But most people don't seem to care about Sandusky anyway in this whole issue, so... maybe I'm a bit off on this specific issue.

And again, I don't really know what specific authority the NCAA has. It's possibly spelled out quite clearly that anything involving sports members (head coach staff only? secretaries in the office? players themselves? ball boys?), regardless of whether it has anything to do with what happens on field, falls under their jurisdiction to punish. This is mostly why I asked.

FTFY, unless you're saying the tens of thousands of people who are part of the organization knew what was going on, and chose not to report it.

(I also feel I should point out that I'm not a fan of college football either - just so you don't think I'm biased. The closest I get to this situation is I have a distant acquaintance who is a Penn State fan.)

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What? No, not at all.

You think I/we don't care about the victims?!? I have many thoughts, I just deleted them because I couldn't put the right words down. But the short of it is I'm sickened by what was done to those kids. I think it was especially awful that they were already at-risk, and then were victimized again. I can't imagine the type of person who could do such things. Sandusky can rot in hell. My friends feel the same.

The court cases will be played out, and we'll get more information about the cover up. I can't express much there because I don't know all of the facts. I'm a scientist. I have to know why things happened, and where the mistakes occurred so they can be prevented in future. I don't draw final conclusions until all of the data are in. Did someone at the university put pressure on the local PD and CPS to drop the 1998 investigation? Did the university not act in 1998 because no charges were filed, so the administration didn't think they needed to do anything? Why did Spanier approve such an unprecedented retirement package after he did find out about the investigation? Who said what when they decided not to act after the shower incident?

Trust me, I will give 'em hell appropriately after the rest of the criminal cases play out. I happen to think the NCAA sanctions were fair, and want to see full restitution made to each and every victim. I want to see full accountability on the part of anyone who took part in a cover-up. I want to see the book thrown at them if they are found guilty. BUT, I want to let the court cases and investigations settle out first.



I have. I read a lot of news articles, and the comments have been... unkind. I've seen people advocate not hiring alumni or firing them, burning the place to the ground, saying that all of the local businesses should all be closed because they made money off of PSU, etc. It's hard to be lumped in with someone who raped young boys, and told that all alums thought Paterno was a god, and that PSU football was the only thing on earth.

I'm not trying to be an apologist - I was having trouble phrasing things, and finally gave up and just hit send. I was just trying to explain why we are conflicted on the matter of Paterno, not to absolve him of anything. We believed he stood for integrity above all else, and to find out that he failed to uphold his own standard (based on the Freeh report findings) - and that additional children were harmed as a result - is hard to take.

But what can each Penn Stater personally do for the victims themselves? Not much, actually. The university will handle direct restitution. All the community can do is keep the university administration, board, trustees, etc. under closer scrutiny to make sure they keep things open and transparent, and don't put too much emphasis on any program, or any one man. We can make sure they institute things like two-deep policies. We can raise money to help the problem generally through already-established charities and advocacy groups (e.g.,
http://proudtobeapennstater.com/). We can contribute to a fund specifically for the victims. But we're powerless to do much else that will directly help them. All we can do is make sure that it never happens again.

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When he's underwater does he get wet? Or does the water get him instead?

It's going to fund programs - outside of the university - to prevent child abuse.

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When he's underwater does he get wet? Or does the water get him instead?

The university has set aside an ass-ton of money for that already.

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When he's underwater does he get wet? Or does the water get him instead?

It occurs to me that this was probably not the best phrasing, all things considered...

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When he's underwater does he get wet? Or does the water get him instead?

ALOL

And, I've been thinking, my first post in response to you was unfair. I appologize. You've always struck me as being a thoughtful and fair minded person, and you deserved much better than that.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Heh. Nevermind. I shouldn't have thought Hellfire a worthwhile place to discuss things, even for something as simple as crimes off the field not affecting what happens on the field and facts on what the NCAA's processes are.

Since I'm not sufficiently outraged for people, I have no choice but to leave Team Hate The Victims and join Team Burn Penn State. Let me know who is giving out the pitchforks. It will be comforting not having to concern oneself with precedent, procedure, or waiting for full information to come out (subpoenaing all the big players in the case to pin them in a corner and actually hear what they have to say is something that should happen, and hasn't yet.) Maybe we can get them to drop all sports programs so students can focus solely on their studies, too. It will guarantee this never happens again... or, well, no it actually won't, but it can help some would-be victims, so nevermind anything else.

Meanwhile I shall ponder by myself about the NCAA's role in the big picture, how one figures out what punishment is enough when they are happy to leave procedure behind, and just how meaningful off-the-field activities are to the history of who accomplished what in the sports world (though I suspect I know based on Pete Rose and his asterisk.. or Ty Cobb, for that matter). I'm sure I can eventually find out on my own. Just thought it would be helpful to discuss them on a discussion forum.

Maybe I came off the wrong way. I was saying that the NCAA shouldn't have had anything to do with it. Those involved should have been prosecuted, firings were in order, etc., but the school didn't deserved to be punished itself. The fact that the coverup involved the sports division was incidental.

The NCAA is a voluntary membership organization. Penn State could simply choose to not belong.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

My bad. I apologize.

It's been a long many months with this all over the Internet, and I've come to expect the worst. I'm still very conflicted on the issue and think that most people (again, judging by many places on the Internet... the Glade is just one) have jumped to angry, angry conclusions from the very start, and are trying to wring every ounce of punishment they can without thought or care for who gets hurt. It's rarely been "wow, that sucks" but instead "I hope they burn", with a very generous "they".

I should know better than to post when having a bad day, especially on a topic that is full of emotion on both sides. So again, sorry.

In time, whatever can be brought to light will, and people will get tried in court. Hopefully when that's through this issue can finally rest.

I'm not really sure what conclusions anyone here has really jumped to. We all discussed various possibilities and if they were true, what we felt about that, but I don't recall anyone immediately calling for nuking Penn State from orbit.

That said, once Sandusky was convicted and the Freeh report came out it became pretty clear what happened.

Frankly, if there's anything to be learned out of this case it's the perils of idolatry and the evils of "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing". My only hope is that whatever the sanctions and penalties that are placed upon Penn State are, that they correct the root cause of the issue, which was an athletic department that was running the university and doing anything to "win" regardless of what was right.

The sanctions and penalties placed on Penn State are going to do far more harm than good. By a HUGE margin.

The victims are going to be hurt more by the penalties and sanctions?

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No but the penalties and sanctions don't do **** to help the victims while doing plenty to hurt those unrelated to the matter.

The NCAA penalties and sanctions have zero to do with helping the victims or even punishing the guilty. That's what the criminal justice system is for.

Edit: And I know at least one of Sandusky's victims said publicly (heard in a radio interview) that he did not want to see more innocent people hurt by this. He has no qualms with the University or the Football Team and just wants those who committed crimes to be punished in accordance with the law.

Again, the NCAA is a voluntary membership organization. Penn State is only obligated to abide by the NCAA's decision if it decides it wants to maintain membership.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20