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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:26 am 
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Rafael wrote:
Just as you see or Just as He sees? Is your arrogance so great that you are completely blinded by it?


Well, my guide is simple: If God does it, it is just, tempered with mercy. Again, that is not arrogant. God acts within His nature.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:35 am 
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Beryllin wrote:
Rafael wrote:
Just as you see or Just as He sees? Is your arrogance so great that you are completely blinded by it?


Well, my guide is simple: If God does it, it is just, tempered with mercy. Again, that is not arrogant. God acts within His nature.


Except you cannot possibly reconcile that statement with your previous:

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God would be unjust if He called for a rape victim to be executed. Since God cannot be unjust, therefore He does not.


If God did such a thing, then it would be Just.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:55 am 
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Rafael wrote:
Beryllin wrote:
Rafael wrote:
Just as you see or Just as He sees? Is your arrogance so great that you are completely blinded by it?


Well, my guide is simple: If God does it, it is just, tempered with mercy. Again, that is not arrogant. God acts within His nature.


Except you cannot possibly reconcile that statement with your previous:

Quote:
God would be unjust if He called for a rape victim to be executed. Since God cannot be unjust, therefore He does not.


If God did such a thing, then it would be Just.


Exactly. So therefore God does not. Unless it's your argument that executing rape victims is just. If so, come out and say so. Ortherwise, you can quit searching for a "gotcha".


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:58 am 
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The "gotcha" is there. You did it to yourself. You are trying to speak for God saying that excecuting rape victims is not Just and therefore he doesn't do it through absurd circular logic.

You are ultra defensive against poeple looking for "gootchas". In fact, you've used this exact phrase before in the past several times. It seems you have some sort of insecurity about being incorrect. Get over it.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:08 pm 
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Rafael wrote:
The "gotcha" is there. You did it to yourself. You are trying to speak for God saying that excecuting rape victims is not Just and therefore he doesn't do it through absurd circular logic.

You are ultra defensive against poeple looking for "gootchas". In fact, you've used this exact phrase before in the past several times. It seems you have some sort of insecurity about being incorrect. Get over it.


Then you are arguing that executing rape victims is just. Good to know that's how you think.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:15 pm 
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No I'm not. I'm not arguing either way. I'm pointing out that you to presume to know what is just. I thought, according to what you posted, only God can know what is Just and thus acts accordingly. You presume to know better than God.

Good to know your conviction is really just a bunch of hollow words.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:21 pm 
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Bery,

It's not a good idea to suggest what God will or will not do, or say how he acts.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:29 pm 
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Rafael wrote:
No I'm not. I'm not arguing either way. I'm pointing out that you to presume to know what is just. I thought, according to what you posted, only God can know what is Just and thus acts accordingly. You presume to know better than God.

Good to know your conviction is really just a bunch of hollow words.


When did I ever say that only God knows what is just?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:18 pm 
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Because only God knows all things?

If God were to strike down a rape victim right now, you would have to admit it was just, because He did it, and He can do no wrong.

You assume that this is something that can never happen, because you personally do not feel it is just. Therefore, God must not. In your head, you explain this as God not seeing it as being just, when in "reality" He may just not be feeling it today.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:20 pm 
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Along the same lines...I had written this last night, but then chose not to post it, and thus just saved it to a text document unless I changed my mind.

Beryllin wrote:
at least I am quoting the actual Scriptures,

That's what Diamondeye is doing. That's what Khross has done. That's what Stathol has done. That's what others have done in the past, and I'm sure still others will do in the future.

You have as much agenda in your interpretation of the Scriptures as those you're railing against; more, in fact, from my perspective. The only difference is that you've the hubris to claim that without question, what you believe the Scriptures to mean is God's intent. What you fail to take into acknowledge is that everyone who reads the Scriptures feels the same way. But you then use that presumption (and it is, I feel, a rather presumptuous presumption) as a cudgel to beat everyone who disagrees with you about the head and shoulders, while you self-righteously claim that you alone have the true meaning of the words of the Lord.

As frustrated as your words have made me in the past, I don't mean this as insult or belittlement. What I'm trying to get you to understand is that by any quantifiable measure, your interpretation is no less or more valid than anyone else's, and accordingly, taking this pious route serves no one, least of all God. God alone knows the myriad nuances of His words, and while I'm sure those who make it to Heaven will find out one day, one's arrogant claims of having the sole meaning strikes me as being, as I said, presumptuous in being so bold as to claim that one alone knows the exact heart of God.

My thoughts. That's all these are. But I urge you to consider that what you are saying are your thoughts, based on God's words, not God's thoughts. There are reasons for the differing denominations; some, granted, are borne of poor choices of leadership, but most have at their root a fundamental disagreement about the meaning of certain Scripture.

I've been around here long enough to expect your response, as I predicted your response to Diamondeye's previous post. But still I urge you to stop expecting others to put so much stock in your opinion.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:33 pm 
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I guess under the "could be worse" category

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,579743,00.html

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:11 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
Along the same lines...I had written this last night, but then chose not to post it, and thus just saved it to a text document unless I changed my mind.

Beryllin wrote:
at least I am quoting the actual Scriptures,

That's what Diamondeye is doing. That's what Khross has done. That's what Stathol has done. That's what others have done in the past, and I'm sure still others will do in the future.

You have as much agenda in your interpretation of the Scriptures as those you're railing against; more, in fact, from my perspective. The only difference is that you've the hubris to claim that without question, what you believe the Scriptures to mean is God's intent. What you fail to take into acknowledge is that everyone who reads the Scriptures feels the same way. But you then use that presumption (and it is, I feel, a rather presumptuous presumption) as a cudgel to beat everyone who disagrees with you about the head and shoulders, while you self-righteously claim that you alone have the true meaning of the words of the Lord.

As frustrated as your words have made me in the past, I don't mean this as insult or belittlement. What I'm trying to get you to understand is that by any quantifiable measure, your interpretation is no less or more valid than anyone else's, and accordingly, taking this pious route serves no one, least of all God. God alone knows the myriad nuances of His words, and while I'm sure those who make it to Heaven will find out one day, one's arrogant claims of having the sole meaning strikes me as being, as I said, presumptuous in being so bold as to claim that one alone knows the exact heart of God.

My thoughts. That's all these are. But I urge you to consider that what you are saying are your thoughts, based on God's words, not God's thoughts. There are reasons for the differing denominations; some, granted, are borne of poor choices of leadership, but most have at their root a fundamental disagreement about the meaning of certain Scripture.

I've been around here long enough to expect your response, as I predicted your response to Diamondeye's previous post. But still I urge you to stop expecting others to put so much stock in your opinion.


It always comes down to this, doesn't it.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:22 pm 
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Beryllin wrote:
It always comes down to this, doesn't it.

*sigh* Whatever "this" is. Yes. No. Sure. Whatever.

I've tried for eight pages to not be dismissive, but there's no point. Have fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:26 pm 
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Beryllin wrote:
It always comes down to this, doesn't it.


As long as you remain steadfastly bigoted and intolerant of those around you that are different...

Yes. It always will.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:29 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
Beryllin wrote:
It always comes down to this, doesn't it.

*sigh* Whatever "this" is. Yes. No. Sure. Whatever.

I've tried for eight pages to not be dismissive, but there's no point. Have fun.


I think you now have a pretty good idea of how I feel. Finally.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:30 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Beryllin wrote:
It always comes down to this, doesn't it.


As long as you remain steadfastly bigoted and intolerant of those around you that are different...

Yes. It always will.


rofl, now comes the name-calling? Cute.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:32 pm 
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Beryllin wrote:
Müs wrote:
Beryllin wrote:
It always comes down to this, doesn't it.


As long as you remain steadfastly bigoted and intolerant of those around you that are different...

Yes. It always will.


rofl, now comes the name-calling? Cute.


Do you disagree that you are bigoted and intolerant to gays?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:56 pm 
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Of course not, other wise he'd not be saying the stuff he does. Ber may not always say things I agree, but I can feel through his posting that his personality are not one who is bigoted and intolerant.

Like several other posters they believe in what they do and that they are doing it for the good of everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:59 pm 
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Beryllin wrote:
FarSky wrote:
Beryllin wrote:
It always comes down to this, doesn't it.

*sigh* Whatever "this" is. Yes. No. Sure. Whatever.

I've tried for eight pages to not be dismissive, but there's no point. Have fun.


I think you now have a pretty good idea of how I feel. Finally.

Please elaborate. Because I have a pretty unflattering idea of what you mean, and I'd like clarification.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:53 am 
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Beryllin wrote:
I frankly don't know why God says some things and doesn't say others. I don't concern myself so much with what He doesn't say in Scripture, I pay attention to what he does say.


So when God specifically prohibits a certain male-male sex act but doesn't extend that to females, it just "doesn't concern you" but at the same time is license for you to extend it?

When God doesn't say something, it's for a reason. You really should start concerning yourself with what isn't said.

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But you still won't admit that you are wrong about the male-on-male argument, even though both Scripture and logic show you to be wrong. God would be unjust if He called for a rape victim to be executed. Since God cannot be unjust, therefore He does not. Also, as I mentioned and maybe you did not see (since it was an edit), that'd be some great incentive for reporting rape, would it not?


I don't see why God would be unjust in calling for a rape victim to be executed any more than He would be unjust in allowing a young girl to die for her father's foolishness. Does He not have the power to bring them to Him in heaven as a remedy for that, and is heaven not a better place than Earth?

In any case, God does not ever call for the execution of rape victims; the command says "you shall not lay down with a man as if a woman". It refers to the voluntary action of both parties. A rape victim is not one who lies down; they are forced to lie down through force or the threat of it. God relies on us to be intelligent enough to understand such things; He does not and should not need to spell everything out in precise language in order to avoid people engaging in the legalisms you are.

Quote:
"Go ahead and report me, they'll execute you, too. Now bend over."

Scripture and logic say you're wrong, I'm sorry that you can't or won't see that.


When I see any evidence of logic I might give some credence to your proclaimations of victory based on broken-record repetition.

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