The Glade 4.0

You're assuming a constant speed of light, and ignoring VSL theory (Moffat, Webb, Albrecht, Magueijo).

But yes, there's lots of evidence that the universe is quite old. But it's also very easy to sidestep, as pointed out, assuming an omnipotent creator.

_________________
Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

While the idea that God could have created a six thousand year-old universe to appear as though it were fourteen billion years old, that would require extra effort on the part of the creator, and would inhibit created life's ability to learn from their surroundings. This would make the creator a god of ignorance, and hostile to created life on a very basic and fundamental level.

_________________
Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

I also wanted to add, slightly off topic, that I dislike the idea of including scientific theories under "belief".

You don't "believe" or "disbelieve" scientific theories. You use them as workable assumptions that give you a starting place from which to build at which point you happily scrap the old one, and start using the new one.

Belief should indicate some deeper commitment to something, in my mind.

_________________
Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Or, as indicated previously in the thread, a God who wants to test people. And assuming the world still works the same way, all you throw out is various continuity theorems- everything else we understand about the universe still works. But other than that, I don't disagree.

_________________
Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

I couldn't bring myself to worship a God that would create a universe designed to fool us as to its nature.

But there are lots of others who don't have any problem with it.

_________________
Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

If God did decide to do that, we wouldn't know it.

Essentially it would be akin to starting a movie on scene 15 rather than at the beginning. If you walk into the room 2 seconds after the movie starts, it is indistinguishable from a movie started at the beginning.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

But that doesn't make any sense. If you're an omnipotent being, and you know everything is going to happen... why test anyone if you already know the result?

_________________

Holy shitsnacks!

Why an omnipotent being would do anything is really beyond our ability to discern. We simply cannot imagine what it would be like to be God. When people, for example, wonder why God would want worship or pretend that it's laughable that He would, they are arrogantly presuming to be able to understand the perspective of an omniscient, omnipotent being for whom time has no meaning, or equally arrogantly, assuming that our perspectives apply to Him. This is as if a mosquito were to scoff at the idea that a human being would notice such a small and insignificant bite.

That said, I feel the question is moot anyhow, since I do not see that the origins of existence as a test of faith fit into Christian ideas about faith, grace, salvation, and redemption.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

_________________

Holy shitsnacks!

Amusingly, we don't apply this standard to anything else. In fact, people often decry attempts to prevent evil for their interference.

Again, we cannot know what things look like from God's perspective. That quote is just an arrogant attempt to place human limitations on God.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

We have ascribed to God the definition of Evil (in his own words sorta. I'm fuzzy on the whole Jesus thing) and yet, He still allows it to happen.

He either doesn't give a ****, or he's malevolent. If He cared, he'd stop bad things happening to good people.

_________________

Holy shitsnacks!

None of that is necessarily true.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

So he tests us, but then removes any bad consequences of said test if we happen to fail?

I don't see how that makes any sense at all.

If it's a test, and we have free will to do as we choose, he can't remove bad consequences and bad choices. That would remove our ability to choose, making it less of a test and more of a puppet show.

But bad consequences don't necessarily flow from bad decisions.

I think a better way to put it would be that God wants us to live our own lives. If God were to remove all evil, Good would be largely irrelevant. We would not love God of our own accord, but because no other possibility existed.

The problem with Arfys's quote is that it is written by someone who does not believe in God in the first place, and therefore contains a hidden assumption that because God doesn't remove all evil in this world, He is unwilling to do so at all. The complete removal of evil comes with eternal life in Heaven. God is, in fact, willing and able to remove evil, but the manner in which He does so is not to simply quash it in this world, but rather to offer us eternal life in a perfect place.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

No, He tests us but knows the outcome of the test before He does it.

SO its less "I wonder what kind of a person this is" and more "Hah! I'm gonna tempt this dude and hes totally gonna go to hell."

The Christian god is a dick.

_________________

Holy shitsnacks!

God does not tempt people.

If you want to not believe, just don't believe. You don't need to justify it. We don't need to justify our belief to you either.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

One cannot categoricly prove the bible account is innaccurate when assuming an omnipotent deity is in play. I have been saying for well over a decade, that either the universe is nearly 14 billion years old, or an all-powerful deity decided to make it look like the universe is nearly 14 billion years old as some kind of practical joke. The choices are, therefore, (1) that the universe is nearly 14 billion years old, the earth over 4 billion, and we evolved or (2) God is an *******.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

And now that Taly has chimed in we can conclusively declare this thread dead

_________________

I will agree that Big Bang Theory is from the pits of Hell.

God that show's awful.

_________________

Holy shitsnacks!

+1. Million.

One of my all time favorite shows, thank you very much.

I interact with at least one person on almost a daily basis who falls into each of the scientist stereotypes.

It's one of the few shows my wife and I will watch over and over.

_________________
Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.