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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:27 am 
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School Cafeteria Trash-Cams!

The logical explanation is at the bottom.. and it actually is logical, but I still don't buy it. You can push back against the policy without spending thousands of dollars to install trash-cams.

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A Florida school district is considering a plan to install surveillance cameras on cafeteria trash cans to monitor what kids are throwing away – after they discovered that students were tossing out their federally-mandated fruit and vegetables.

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The Lake County School Board said more than $75,000 worth of vegetables have been thrown in the garbage. The veggies and fresh fruit are party of the Obama administration’s policy to force schools to provide healthy produce in lunch rooms.

“It’s fairly specific recipe of what they would like us to serve,” Lake County School Board member Tod Howard told Fox News. “Unfortunately, much of it has to do with fresh fruit and vegetables and it seems to be going into the trash. And that’s not okay.”

So Howard suggested the district attach security cameras to the trash cans to monitor exactly what is being thrown away.

“It will also give us documentation so that we can go back to the federal government and say here’s what we are finding,” he said. “We do know there’s an issue.”

School districts across the nation are furious with the Obama administration’s orders. Some students have staged strikes while others have launched petition drives urging the federal government to change their policy.

But Lake County is believed to be the first to actually videotape kids tossing their veggies – and that has some parents upset.

“So we’re going to spend how many more thousands of dollars to put cameras on trash cans to document the thousands of dollars in food the kids are throwing away,” one parent wrote on ClickOrlando.com “This is a no brainer, kids are not going to eat the stuff served at school. Has anyone really looked at these lunch trays?”

“Why not just remove the kids from their parent’s home at 3 – 5 years-old and put them in mass dormitories where their entire lives can be monitored and properly controlled so that they become properly modeled citizens and serve as they are needed by our enlightened leaders,” another reader wrote.

A number of parents were concerned that their children might be videotaped.

“Because no matter what they say, they are going to try to identify the kids throwing the food away and then social workers and courts will get involved,” wrote one local resident. “If your child doesn’t eat his school lunch, you will face punishment. Think I’m wrong? There are cities and states that punish the adults if the children are truant or get in trouble with the law in any manner. Your kid threw away a carrot? Go to jail. This is what we are coming to.”

Howard called those concerns “conspiracy theories” and said they were not going to force kids to eat their vegetables.

“I don’t want anybody to be on camera at all,” he told Fox News. “This would be aimed directly into the trash can. By no means would any of our students be in the picture.”

He said the cameras were meant to give the school district evidence they need to push back against the federal guidelines.

“If we just can’t get kids to eat broccoli and 90 percent of it is going in the trash – that’s a waste of taxpayer dollars – and the federal government needs to look at their mandate,” he said. “We have no choice in the matter. This is just a tool to help us document he issue.”

No decisions have been made on the cameras – yet.

Todd is the author of “Dispatches From Bitter America.” The book is endorsed by Sarah Palin, Mark Levin and Sean Hannity. Click here to get your copy!


My wife also pointed out that not all the food-tossing may not be due to disliking the vegetables; rather it's a matter of liking other things on the plate more. The amount of time to eat lunch has gotten so constricted, at least at my daughter's school here in Texas, that the kids just can't finish it all so they eat what they like best first. We're talking like 10 minutes to eat, which is about what I'd expect for soldiers at basic training, not 6-year-olds.

Either way, this is absurd. If we're going to start abolishing Federal departments, Education should be the first one up against the wall.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:36 am 
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The fact that some of the parents are crackpot conspiracy theorists is irrelevant. A parent should be concerned about a school videotaping what their child eats or does not eat. This should be challenged before becoming acceptable behavior for a public school. Period.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:42 am 
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Normally I would agree that thinking the videos could be used to hold parents responsible for their kids not eating vegetables is crackpotism, but in view of the "using a laptop to discipline a student for 'inappropriate behavior in the home'" a few years ago, I wouldn't be totally surprised if some self-important idiot didn't take a crack at it

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:13 am 
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Unfortunately, schools do not have a good track record of collecting aggregated, anonymized data, nor demonstrated responsible handling of (what should be) private data. Which is not abnormal, as most people and organizations are bad at it, also. The problem that schools have is, of course, not only that they're bad at it, but also that the potential data they're wanting to gather is for a segment of the population that have more protections than the general adult populace.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:22 am 
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Good article about the food issue in schools these days.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/wasted-food-hun ... -action/2/

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Wasted Food, Hungry Kids: Michelle Obama’s Bill in Action

Posted By Patrick Richardson On September 24, 2012 @ 3:27 pm In Education,US News | 409 Comments

In 2010, Michelle Obama went to a lame-duck session of Congress with a request: pass a nutrition bill giving the United States Department of Agriculture broad new powers [1] to regulate school lunches. That bill was passed in late December of that year, and the new regulations have started to go into effect, with the predictable results of wasted food and angry, hungry children.

The cinnamon rolls and chili everyone loved from their childhood are now gone. Bands and other school groups can no longer sell candy bars as a fundraiser. The government is mandating everything from portion size to how many tomatoes have to be on a salad.

P.J. Moran, a food service director for a small district in rural Kansas, said wastage has gone up “at least 20 percent” over last year, as students, particularly at the grade school level, cannot refuse anything on their trays — but, of course, cannot be forced to eat it.

At the high school and junior high levels, things are more flexible, but not much. Moran said those students can refuse up to three items on the tray, but must take the fruit and vegetable servings whether they plan to eat them or not.

The district’s principal, Jim Bolden, said that at the beginning of the year, food service put fresh peaches on the students’ trays, only to helplessly watch them be thrown away by students who didn’t want them:

I bet we threw away four boxes of peaches.

The 8th grade class, which had planned — as always — to sell candy bars to fund its class trip this spring, has had to find new ways to fund it as sales of candy bars this year are allowed only during certain hours. Says Bolden:

Next year we will not be able to do any selling of food products at all. Right now we cannot sell from an hour before lunch until an hour after lunch ends.

Not only is the mandated food not popular and often wasted, there also is not enough of it, and students are protesting. Students in one district have released a YouTube [2] video [2] parodying their quest for enough to eat during the day. A Facebook [3] page asks kids to send in pictures of their meager lunches.

According to Livestrong [4]. [4]com [4], teenagers need between 2,000 and 3,000 calories per day to be healthy, and athletes can need as many as 5,000 calories. But the new regulations limit the intake to just 750-850 calories on the tray. Which, if the food is unpalatable, means the students may not be getting even that much.

Rep. Tim Huelskamp (R-KS) and Rep. Steve King (R-IA) have cosponsored the “No Hungry Kids Act,” which aims to repeal the legislation they say is sending kids home hungry. PJ Media spoke to Huelskamp on September 20, when he called the regulations “the epitome of good intentions gone awry.”

Huelskamp said he got involved in August — in Kansas, school starts in August, much earlier than many other states — when a relative sent him pictures of what was in a school lunch:

One size doesn’t fit all, particularly in the lunchroom. The goal of the school lunch program is supposed to be feeding children, not filling the trash cans with uneaten food. The USDA’s new school lunch guidelines are a perfect example of what is wrong with government: misguided inputs, tremendous waste, and unaccomplished goals. Thanks to the Nutrition Nannies at the USDA, America’s children are going hungry at school.

Huelskamp noted that even the last refuge of the hungry kid — the unlimited school salad bar — is now more or less a thing of the past:

Eight-hundred calories is not going to get you from lunch through football practice. They can’t even have an unlimited salad bar any more because they [the kids] might put too much cheese on it or not have the mandated eight cherry tomatoes.

The amount of protein a child is allowed on their trays is seriously limited as well, according to Huelskamp. He said the current regulations limit servings of protein, which could be anything from a hamburger to a side of beans, to 1.5 ounces two days a week and 2 ounces the other three days.

Huelskamp suggested the administration’s focus is perhaps misplaced:

Obesity is not the number one national [5] security [5] concern [5] like [Michelle Obama] says it is.

It was a sentiment with which Moran agreed:

I don’t really think childhood obesity is because of school lunches. Their aim shouldn’t be at the schools.

Dave Trabert of the Kansas [6] Policy [6] Institute [6], an independent policy think tank, said much of the problem is traced straight back to government bureaucracy:

It’s really up to parents what their kids eat and the government should not be mandating. It drives up the cost, it strips people of freedom and eliminates local control. The intrusiveness has been growing and recently it’s been indescribable. These things are done by bureaucratic mandate. These are people who cannot be held accountable. I would have to wonder how many of these bureaucrats are having pizza at their meetings.

In a release [7], King was vehement that these regulations were not helping and were intruding on the rights of parents:

The misguided nanny state, as advanced by Michelle Obama’s “Healthy and Hunger Free Kids Act,” was interpreted by (USDA) Secretary (Tom) Vilsack to be a directive that, because some kids are overweight, he would put every child on a diet. Parents know that their kids deserve all of the healthy and nutritious food they want.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:32 pm 
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To those of you that think it's unreasonable to suspect they will punish anyone for throwing out food, here's an anecdote:

In elementary school (fifth grade maybe, so roughly 24 years ago) they decided they were going to stop selling lunch tickets (they sold tickets in the morning that you then used to get your lunch) to kids that were later than X o'clock. These kids would then not be allowed to purchase a lunch, but would instead be GIVEN a PB&J and milk.

So, naturally, I show up late and was denied a ticket. I show up at lunch and attempt to buy a lunch. I am refused, and handed a PB&J.

"No thanks."
"That's all I can give you."
"Ok, well, I'll skip lunch then."
"You have to eat this." Hands me a tray.

Go to table, sit down, don't eat it, throw it out.

Go to class. Lunch lady and the damn principal come into my class and pull me out to the principals office, where they berate me for refusing to eat my sandwich. I am told that I must sit in her office until I eat the sandwich. I refuse, and sit quietly.

This lasts for less than 5 minutes until the principal explodes and tells me I'll be spending my lunches with her for the next week and do I want her to call my mother? My mother is the stereo-typical Texan ranch-woman, so I say, "Yes, please call her."

After about 5 minutes of hearing my mother rip her a new one, I was sent back to class.

They will try to use this info, and it will be yet another distraction for these kids.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:41 pm 
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Big surprise, kids don't like eating fruit and salads instead of freaking pizza. Doesn't mean we should continue giving them that garbage every day.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:48 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Big surprise, kids don't like eating fruit and salads instead of freaking pizza. Doesn't mean we should continue giving them that garbage every day.


True. I think the solution is to offer the food, but not force it to be taken. As long as it is available, the schools can claim that they are offering healthy foods and such and not wasting it if its not chosen.

In addition, allow more time for eating and after lunch play and bring recess back in addition to allowing games like tag and such.

That'll get the fat little bastards back in shape.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:02 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Big surprise, kids don't like eating fruit and salads instead of freaking pizza. Doesn't mean we should continue giving them that garbage every day.


Pizza, and school lunches in general, prior to this nonsense were not "garbage".

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Why offer what won't be eaten - that only wastes the food at a slower rate.

Removing choice in order to force what one group think is good on everyone else almost always has horrible unintended consequences.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:33 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Why offer what won't be eaten - that only wastes the food at a slower rate.

Removing choice in order to force what one group think is good on everyone else almost always has horrible unintended consequences.


So remove choice to not remove choice?

If the healthy foods are offered then those that are hungry will eat the things that are offered. If they don't eat, they go hungry. The school can then say to the parents "We offered your child a selection of healthy food, and they *chose* to not eat. How is this our fault again?"

And by not having the food discarded in the trash, it can then be offered to other programs for other people after a time. If you were homeless, would you rather have an apple that was maybe a bit brown or one you had to dig out of the trash?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Kids don't reject all fruits and vegetables out of hand.

It's when you try to make every meal all about fruits and vegetables and then compound that by not giving enough time to eat that this problem arises.

It's not hard to get a kid to eat a small helping of peas. When you slap an entire plate of peas and carrots in front of a kid and tell them to "eat healthy", that's when you have problems. Childrens palettes are not adult pallettes. Most of us probably have foods we disliked as kids that we started liking later.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Why offer what won't be eaten - that only wastes the food at a slower rate.

Removing choice in order to force what one group think is good on everyone else almost always has horrible unintended consequences.


So remove choice to not remove choice?

If the healthy foods are offered then those that are hungry will eat the things that are offered. If they don't eat, they go hungry. The school can then say to the parents "We offered your child a selection of healthy food, and they *chose* to not eat. How is this our fault again?"

And by not having the food discarded in the trash, it can then be offered to other programs for other people after a time. If you were homeless, would you rather have an apple that was maybe a bit brown or one you had to dig out of the trash?


You would think they can but I've been told that federal law prevents the reuse of food items once offered for sale or consumption.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Ok, so repeal that dumbass law. Or adjust it to Food items offered for sale or consumption cannot then be resold, but can be donated appropriately.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:33 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Ok, so repeal that dumbass law. Or adjust it to Food items offered for sale or consumption cannot then be resold, but can be donated appropriately.

This plus 9,001

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Müs wrote:
Ok, so repeal that dumbass law. Or adjust it to Food items offered for sale or consumption cannot then be resold, but can be donated appropriately.


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/03/19/bloomberg-strikes-again-nyc-bans-food-donations-to-the-homeless/


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:36 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:


Dafuq is wrong with him?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:26 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Lenas wrote:
Big surprise, kids don't like eating fruit and salads instead of freaking pizza. Doesn't mean we should continue giving them that garbage every day.


Pizza, and school lunches in general, prior to this nonsense were not "garbage".


Pizza and most of the foods offered prior to this nonsense were indeed "garbage" from a nutritional perspective. That fact that you think otherwise speaks to just how completely **** our perspectives on what good food are.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:22 am 
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Aizle wrote:
Pizza and most of the foods offered prior to this nonsense were indeed "garbage" from a nutritional perspective. That fact that you think otherwise speaks to just how completely **** our perspectives on what good food are.


I guess this is garbage then too:

Image

Pizza is certainly not "garbage" at all. What's **** up is this idea that we need to eat "healthy" with this massive quantity of fruits and vegetables and meat portions so small they're disgraceful. They're based on 2 things: A) appearance and B) the general move to a more sedentary lifestyle.

It is important to eat fruits and vegetables, but the entire "food pyramid" idea is total nonsense. How much of what you should eat is based on what you do every day. By confining kids to the classroom for longer and longer periods and compromising physical activity in favor of having just 5 more minutes to hammer lessons by catering to the lowest performing students academically, we've artificially created the idea that not just things like Twinkies, Ho Hos and Reeses Cups are garbage empty calories, but that perfectly nutritious, normal foods like pizza and burgers are too just based on their calorie content.

There is no reason a kid should be fat if they're given a burger or pizza or something comparable every day for lunch, along with vegetables and fruit and without an outsized portion of the latter or some pitiful little excuse for the former. The problem is that we don't give them enough time to eat, so they only eat the "good" part, and by making it this massive portion of vegetables or fruit, we're making eating into a chore by saying "This is healthy, eat it whether you like it or not". Eating should be pleasurable, not just healthy. Otherwise, we are teaching kids that fruits and vegetables are punishment, and as soon as they have any freedom to choose they will rebel hard against those foods even if they actually like them.

We also are not teaching kids to exercise. The way you do that is to give them recess time, not just phys ed where there is a cirriculum to get through. Play is how kids, especially small kids, exercise. That's how they get used to exercise as normal and fun. Part of the reason kids park themselves in front of the TV and get talked at at home is because school has become more and more and longer and longer sessions of parking your *** in a seat and getting talked at.

The absurdity of all this is highlighted all the more by the fact that high schools are serving the same 850 calorie lunch to the linebackers as to the kid that goes home and plays PS3 for 3 hours after school. Pizza is not "garbage" to an athlete, its desperately needed energy. Athletes need to build strength, speed, and endurance. Heck, high school kids could probably perform better with a "recess" to let them go run around and be silly for 20 minutes in the middle of the day.

Most of our ideas about nutrition are based on what was normal back when food was simply less available. You know what was also more common back then? Starvation. We are pushing this idea of a sedentary lifestyle, and matching our diet to it, and now we're shoving it on kids.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:40 am 
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The entire premise of most "healthy" food movements are absurd. The fruits in sugars can be just as dangerous as candies from a blood sugar/diabetic perspective. So can carbs (in fact they can be worse)

Furthermore, when it comes to most young individuals, food type (vegetables v. grains v. meats, etc.) is not going to matter nearly as much as portion control and exercise, just like DE is indicating. Barring some sort of digestive or thyroid problem, metabolisms are going to process it all, provided kids aren't eating like 4,000 calories a day.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:49 am 
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Thyroid problems are another issue. They are remarkably easy to diagnose, but are often overlooked in obesity discussions. The Army consistently failed to diagnose mine, and it took me 3 civilian doctors before they found it once I got out - and that guy got it by a routine blood test he gives to all new patients. It is entirely too easy to say "diet and exercise" when looking at an obese person. They are no joke, either. Despite being on a fairly high dose of Synthroid, I barely pass body fat, and that's being able to do 60 pushups in 2 minutes, 90 situps in 2 minutes, and run 2 miles in 14:00 or so. I'm damn close to a perfect score on the PFT for my age, but I'm still "fat". Trying to "eat healthy" would diminish the energy I need for speed and power, both in my civilian job and in the military. I could probably cut beer out, but I already watch my consumption of that because of my father's alcoholism. I'm not willing to give beer up entirely because the Army wants soldiers to be models in their dress uniforms.

As to 4,000 calories a day, DFK! is right; it's a matter of not being absurd in either direction. Feeding kids nothing but pizza is absurd; so is expecting them to eat salad day in and day out. There are some kids that may even need 4,000 calories a day; very high-caliber athletes, or those kids out in the country that go home from school and work on the farm. They're few and far between, but once again it's "one size fits all". Remember the poorest county in America? I bet a lot of those kids are amongst the hardest-working in America just trying to make ends meet, but once again rural poor are caught up in a plan tailored to suburbanites and urban social concerns.

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