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 Post subject: Honesty
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:19 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Honesty
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:25 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Honesty
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:32 pm 
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playing devil's advocate, if gay marriages were such an importance to the president then why not a peep on it until after 2010? why run in 2008 on a anti gay marriage stance? why not take advantage of their two year super majority? why only bring it up when the base is down? why after finally "evolving" on the issue does he only believe it is a state issue, when he has never resisted making something a federal law? now after coming out why has he not pushed for any legislation? after all his party still contols the senate, and can still propose legislation?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:34 pm 
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Cause he's a pandering liar.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:46 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Cause he's a pandering liar.



We have a winner! But he is pandering to what they want to hear! And just to round it out, here is some of his other great flips!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... on_LEADTop

Quote:
"I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program"—Illinois state Sen. Barack Obama, June 2003.

"I have not said that I was a single-payer supporter"—President Obama, August 2009.
***

"Leadership means that the buck stops here. . . . I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit"—Sen. Barack Obama, March 2006.

"It is not acceptable for us not to raise the debt ceiling and to allow the U.S. government to default"—President Obama, July 2011.
***

"I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages"—Obama questionnaire response, 1996, while running for Illinois state Senate.

"I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage"—Sen. Obama, November 2008, while running for president.

"It is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to get married"—President Obama, May 2012.
***

"We have an idea for the trigger. . . . Sequestration"—Obama Office of Management and Budget Director Jack Lew in 2011, as reported in Bob Woodward's "The Price of Politics."

"First of all, the sequester is not something that I've proposed. It is something that Congress has proposed"—President Obama, October 2012.
***

"If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election"—Sen. Obama, 2007.

"We've made the decision not to participate in the public financing system for the general election"—Sen. Obama, June 2008.
***

"I will never question the patriotism of others in this campaign"—Sen. Obama, June 2008.

"The way Bush has done it over the last eight years is . . . [he] added $4 trillion by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back. . . . That's irresponsible. It's unpatriotic"—Sen. Obama, July 2008.

"I don't remember what the number was precisely. . . . We don't have to worry about it short term"—President Obama, September 2012, on the debt figure when he took office ($10 trillion) and whether to worry about today's $16 trillion figure.
***

"[Sen. Hillary Clinton believes] that . . . if the government does not force taxpayers to buy health care, that we will penalize them in some fashion. I disagree with that"—Sen. Obama, Jan 2008, opposing the individual mandate for health insurance.

"I'm open to a system where every American bears responsibility for owning health insurance"—President Obama, June 2009, supporting the individual mandate.
***

"Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times when America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive"—President Obama, April 2009, in France.

"We have at times been disengaged, and at times we sought to dictate our terms"—President Obama, April 2009, in Trinidad and Tobago.

"Nothing Governor Romney just said is true, starting with this notion of me apologizing"—Barack Obama, October 2012, on whether he went on a global apology tour.
***

"The problem with a spending freeze is you're using a hatchet where you need a scalpel"—Sen. Obama, September 2008.

"Starting in 2011, we are prepared to freeze government spending for three years"—President Obama, January 2010.
***

"So if somebody wants to build a coal-fired plant, they can, it's just that it will bankrupt them"—Sen. Obama, January 2008, on his plans to financially penalize coal plants.

"Now is the time to end this addiction, and to understand that drilling is a stop-gap measure, not a long-term solution"—Sen. Obama, August 2008.

"Here's what I've done since I've been president. We have increased oil production to the highest levels in 16 years. Natural gas production is the highest it's been in decades. We have seen increases in coal production and coal employment"—President Obama, October 2012.
***

"If I don't have this done in three years, then there's going to be a one-term proposition"—President Obama, 2009.

"We've got a long way to go but . . . we've come too far to turn back now. . . . And that's why I'm running for a second term"—President Obama, October 2012.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:53 pm 
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I'm sure you can do the same thing for every politician.

They're *all* pandering liars.

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 Post subject: Re: Honesty
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:49 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
playing devil's advocate, if gay marriages were such an importance to the president then why not a peep on it until after 2010? why run in 2008 on a anti gay marriage stance? why not take advantage of their two year super majority? why only bring it up when the base is down? why after finally "evolving" on the issue does he only believe it is a state issue, when he has never resisted making something a federal law? now after coming out why has he not pushed for any legislation? after all his party still contols the senate, and can still propose legislation?


They weren't when he was elected. He has since apparently seen reason, or decided that it's worth pandering to. In either case his record certainly hasn't been stellar, but it has been better than any president thus far.


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 Post subject: Re: Honesty
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:33 pm 
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Or maybe your moderate Republican friends should just tell you to shut the **** up because gay marriage is not an issue we have a President to deal with. My taxes and take-home pay DO mean more than something that is not a "fundamental right" in the first place unless your state says it is.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:34 am 
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Müs wrote:
Cause he's a pandering liar.


That's not really a downside. Every politician is a pandering liar. You don't get anywhere in politics without being one. You'll remember that Romney signed off on universal health care and ran for governor on a pro-choice platform.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:16 am 
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Sure as long as the people voting for Obama go to every child funeral in Pakistan.

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 Post subject: Re: Honesty
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:36 am 
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Aizle wrote:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee3/nelserickson/DougWright.jpg

So tell me, Aizle -- how many of the presidential candidates you've ever voted for have supported gay marriage at the time of your vote?

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 Post subject: Re: Honesty
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:13 am 
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Stathol wrote:
Aizle wrote:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee3/nelserickson/DougWright.jpg

So tell me, Aizle -- how many of the presidential candidates you've ever voted for have supported gay marriage at the time of your vote?


To the best of my knowledge, there hasn't been a viable candidate who has supported it until now. So none.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:17 am 
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So Gary Johnson?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:19 am 
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Note the word viable.

And I believe that Obama has stated that he now supports gay marriage.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:26 am 
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I can unequivocally say that I place value of the ability of every single American, including the LGBT community, to provide for themselves and their families and to prepare for their futures above the value of a smaller segment of the population having their right to enter into a specific type of contract recognized by the federal government. I value both, for sure, but the first is a much larger issue on a national scale.

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 Post subject: Re: Honesty
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:41 am 
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There's the rub. Some people see marriage as more than a contract (which is a issue about strait marriages as well) and worry about their rights to say so. Everywhere it goes on the expression/association rights of those who disagree get stepped on.

I have no problem with any homosexuals rights of expression and association. Rent a hall. Tell the whole world how much you love this other man. If some other church wants to host it, that's between them and God. However don't force me to bake your wedding cake or loan you out my church's facilities.

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Last edited by Rorinthas on Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Honesty
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:42 am 
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If you vote for a Republican or Democrat, you are part of the problem and irreconcilably divorced from the solution to American difficulties.

People who support Obama oppose the following things:

1. Freedom of association.

2. Self-ownership of person, actions, and outcomes.

3. Individual responsibility.

4. Fiscal responsibility.

5. Consistency and general integrity.

Vote write-in; just don't vote for ANY establishment candidate.

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 Post subject: Re: Honesty
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:45 am 
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Every write in is a half vote for Obama?

Also does that include yourself since you voted for him?

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 Post subject: Re: Honesty
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:54 am 
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Rorinthas wrote:
There's the rub. Some people see marriage as more than a contract (which is a issue about strait marriages as well) and worry about their rights to say so. Everywhere it goes on the expression/association rights of those who disagree get stepped on.

I have no problem with any homosexuals rights of expression and association. Rent a hall. Tell the whole world how much you love this other man. If some other church wants to host it, that's between them and God. However don't force me to bake your wedding cake or loan you out my church's facilities.

For the purposes of the conversation being had in the public arena today, marriage is a contractual issue. No one is arguing that churches should be forced to perform gay ceremonies.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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 Post subject: Re: Honesty
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:56 am 
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Rorinthas wrote:
Every write in is a half vote for Obama?
If you believe you only have two choices, you are part of the problem not the solution. You are contributing to the failure of our electoral system and government. You are an enemy to your own freedoms. There's no argument here: if you believe in the false dilemma of American politics, you should not vote. You do not understand the responsibility.
Rorinthas wrote:
Also does that include yourself since you voted for him?
I did vote for him; I've never supported him. And I only cast my ballot after he was already announced the winner in 7 states 3 hours before my polls closed. I voted him to justify my schadenfreude at the American condition over the last 4 years. This country is bleeding and in agony because of a bad demagogue and 80 years of bad legislation before him.

But then, I also know that my general election vote does NOT matter and is little more than a traditional courtesy extended to me by our Federal Government. And, fortunately for me, I live in a state that doesn't bind its electors.

It's been 12 years of elections and the same arguments from the same people about throwing away their vote still ring so resoundingly hollow, I'm convinced none of you are capable of learning anything, anymore.

The Status Quo hasn't changed. Through 3-monkey Republicanism, 3-monkey Democratism, a white, racist, hick from Connecticut and "a white-washed Chicago Uncle-Tom" ...

The situation for the smallfolk is still the same.

Get the past the false dilemma so indoctrinated in all of you by our primary-education system and learn to think for yourselves.

If you keep voting R or D ... **** IS NOT going to change.

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Corolinth wrote:
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Last edited by Khross on Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Honesty
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:01 am 
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Rynar wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
There's the rub. Some people see marriage as more than a contract (which is a issue about strait marriages as well) and worry about their rights to say so. Everywhere it goes on the expression/association rights of those who disagree get stepped on.

I have no problem with any homosexuals rights of expression and association. Rent a hall. Tell the whole world how much you love this other man. If some other church wants to host it, that's between them and God. However don't force me to bake your wedding cake or loan you out my church's facilities.

For the purposes of the conversation being had in the public arena today, marriage is a contractual issue. No one is arguing that churches should be forced to perform gay ceremonies.

Certainly, though, you can understand this sort of fear, though? If the issue is framed, as it invariably is, as giving gays the "right" to marry -- how long until somebody decides that that right is more equal than the right to free religion?

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 Post subject: Re: Honesty
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:03 am 
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One of these two people are going to be the next President. If 100 people vote for Obama and 101 for Romney, Romney is going to the white house. Maybe someday there will be an organized viable third candidate but that day is not a handful of days away.

People tried the dont vote for the D or R thing around here. It got us William Jefferson Clinton.

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 Post subject: Re: Honesty
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:06 am 
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Rorinthas wrote:
One of these two people are going to be the next President. If 100 people vote for Obama and 101 for Romney, Romney is going to the white house. Maybe someday there will be an organized viable third candidate but that day is not a handful of days away.
<-- This is why there will never be an "organized, viable third candidtate". Thank you for demonstrating my point: our electoral process is broken because the government has convinced the govern it's an either/or situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Honesty
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:08 am 
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Probably a repost:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:08 am 
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And as long as you let that idea exist in your head - you will still not help that day arrive.

Your duty is to vote for the best person for the job not surrender your vote to the will of others simply because they are a majority (or you believe they are).

If a person comes up to you on the street and offers you the choice of a punch or kick to the balls the rational decision is not to choose either one but to walk away.

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