The Glade 4.0

Btw, LadyKate:

I apologize for the turn of this thread. Twasn't my intent. I believe the Manhatten Declaration to be a good thing, with ideals Christians should strive for. Thank you for starting this thread.

So Christians should strive to circumvent the First Amendment; they should strive to make Christian Law into the government's law? Christians should strive to be Christians and act according to their faith; they should not, under any circumstances; attempt to force their faith on others through legislation. The Manhattan Declaration is apostasy; it is turning away from their faith and resorting to laws of man to spread their values. It is not evangelism.

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Trust me, I know how the organ and tissue industry works.

My point was merely that a better analogy would likely have been more appropriate.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

I've always thought the moral to that story was "As long as you're human, you'll inevitably sin sometime in your life. Forgive those because one day you’ll be in their position and would want forgiveness.” I kinda also took it as “mind your own business, this is between me (jesus) and the sinner”

Basically we’re saying the same thing just with different wording.

Faith should be between you and your god. Government, law, education, other random people should not be involved in this equation. As much as you want to build a more ‘godly world’ for your children, at the end of the day, faith will eventually be between their faith and their god.

You both need to chill.

I am constantly disappointed at the way these sorts of conversations always seem to turn into some sort of pissing contest, with some people trying to be "right" or trip someone else up, or have a "gotcha" moment, or take glee and great delight in catching someone else with a flaw in their argument.

Why do these things have to be some great debate? Can't we just discuss something without "arguing" it? Can't a topic just have people sharing their different opinions without everyone jumping in to prove them wrong?

I'm outta here.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

If the definition of insanity is truly doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result, one could almost declare me certifiable. What saves me from such a fate is that I don't expect a different result, I just hope for one. I'm 99.9% sure that ain't gonna happen.

Indeed. I don't believe anyone was ever amde a disciple by force.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

No, nobody needs to "chill". The point of coming to this forum is to be able to discuss serious issues without having to counch everything in feel-good terms, or pretend as if every opinion is equally valuable regardless of its merits.

There's not a lot of point in discussing things without being able to point out problems in others' positions.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

No, we're not saying the same thing with different wording. I didn't say anything about forgiving; Jesus didn't ask those about to stone the woman to forgive her because they weren't wronged. They were just carrying out the Mosaic laws. Jesus was pointing out that mercy was greater than the law.

Jesus is also not saying "mind your own buisness", what he's saying is "don't take it upoin yourself to administer punishment". There's a big difference between saying something is wrong and doing something about it. The people in the story were going to execute the woman, not just castigate her. "Throwing the first stone" in that case was not an analogy or a euphamism; He was referring to actual stones they had ready to hand.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

DE - I always read that passage as Christ telling the righteous person to mind their own damn business.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Here's the simplest translation of that particular parable possible: Don't be a ****' hypocrite.

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I didnt mean that they should forgive her, but that it was between her and jesus (the forgiveness). As for the other, we'll have to agree to disagree.



lol I was trying to be slightly more political in my reply hehe... but I agree thats what jesus was trying to say to the people.

Of course you do. That way you can use it to tell Christians they aren't allowed to state their opinion.

Khross sums it up as accurately as it can be in one line.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Yea, that.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

I don't know that I entirely agree with that. Obviously, that's part of it. However, I also think Christ is admonishing this person to leave the other person the hell alone. Hypocrisy may be the tool by which Christ is accomplishing that end, but I think the end is the key point.

I'll let DE's vitriol about why I think the way I do seep into the muck where it belongs.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Of course you think it's the key point.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Montegue:

Except, the parable itself precludes the notion of turning a blind eye to sin. There exists more evidence than I could easily catalog, within the New Testament, that the Christian thing to do is acknowledge the sin, explain the sin, chastise the sinner, and implore them to repent and seek the blessing of Christ and the Lord in their penitence. You don't mete out punishment; you help the sinner cross the chasm of sin.

Now, we can argue the minutiae of that sort of evangelism all day long, but there's little, if any, textual support for Christians turning a blind eye to sin.

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What is sumptuary tax!!

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“The person who tries to live alone will not succeed as a human being. His heart withers if it does not answer another heart. His mind shrinks away if he hears only the echoes of his own thoughts and finds no other inspiration.” - Pearl S. Buck

That's actually rather well said.

Khross said it quite well, so I won't add to it except to give just one example of the amout of evidence he mentioned.

The same Christ who said "He who is without sin cast the first stone" is also the same Christ that said "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature, he that believes will be saved, and those who don't will be condemned."

Frustrating, sure, but it would all be worth it if you could somehow find a way to save just one of our souls.

I'm pretty sure preach does not mean mandate in that quote.

Has my sarcasm meter gone off?

I hope so, because I can not save anyone. Only God saves people by His grace through faith.

I can not give anyone faith. People have to make up their own mind and heart.

My greatest hope is that somewhere down the road, God uses something I typed here in the life of someone. For the Word of God will not come back to Him empty, and it can be a seed that lies dormant for a long time. And you know, I don't even have to know about it happening, though that would be nice. I really am nothing more than a sower, so to speak. It is God that gives life and reaps the glory. That's as it should be.

So, to give what you said a more proper phrasing, Arathain, it will all be worth it if God uses something I did here to reach someone here. Not for me, but for Him. But even if not, it'll still be worth it, because I sowed the seed.

It is also true that I have not done as well as I should have. Issues and my personality have crashed together and I have been far too contentious on certain issues. In some ways I am misunderstood, though I attribute that (in part) to my lack of typing skills that make long, detailed explanations of my points difficult, so I use short-hand that I understand but perhaps others do not. Attitudes get read into my posts that really are not there, and that's my fault.

My time here has not been wasted, though it could have been better. I probably won't know the full impact I have had (if any at all) till I stand before God and hear His judgment of how well or poorly I did.

Indeed; that's extremely well put.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."