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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:15 am 
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Nice work, Jerry! I especially like the electrical distribution system at the table joint. My wiring looks much more spaghetti-like.

I do want to ask, if you build it in 6'x11', how will you reach the center of the layout? In the regular 5'x9' I'm already having a hard time reaching the middle, even with a step stool. I can do it, but its a stretch.

I'll have more pictures of my own soon. What with the holiday, I've been putting off starting on the plaster. I've also identified a few more trackage problems and have been correcting them. I don't want to have to rip out plasterwork to correct track problems!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:28 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
I do want to ask, if you build it in 6'x11', how will you reach the center of the layout?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:42 am 
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It is too far to reach easily. The town area will be built on a removable panel and well, there is not going to be much in the quarry area. The switches in the middle can be reached if needed. So far my track testing has not shown them to be problematic though. Here is a link you might want to view. You will have to join to see the pictures. http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=14852


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:16 am 
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Already a member there, but thanks for the link with the pictures anyhow.

Did my first batch of plaster today. I'll post a picture tomorrow with the second one in.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:25 pm 
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On evening shift now, so nap times for the baby have slowed me down a little on the plaster. However, the first two batches have been emplaced.

A word about plaster if you've never used it: Holy ****. This stuff splatters and makes a mess like nothing I've ever seen before! On batch #1 I greatly underestimated how much newspaper coverage would be needed for the floor. Thankfully, I covered the tracks and bridges pretty much adequately with masking tape and newspaper but the floor was not a pretty sight. Fortunately, I had put a tablespoon of vinegar in the mix as a retarder to slow the plaster set-up time, so that gave me more time to clean up. On the second batch, I went down to only half a tablespoon of vinegar. The effect was startling; the plaster set up much faster, to the point where I was racing to use it up before it set too much. It's not a whole lot of plaster either; 2 cups of dry mix and 2 cups of water at a time.

Anyhow, here is the beginning of the mountain. Right now, it does bear a strong resemblance to plaster-covered paper towel rather than rock, but once painted, covered with scrub and trees, and otherwise detailed I think it will be a lot better. I will probably lay another piece or two of paper towel over the most obnoxious spots.

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This gap needs to be filled with a cardboard liner still; almost forgot that. Then I can plaster the hillside between the track lines. Also, I replaced the pier girder bridge here with a warren truss that I had laying around. It's grey, so will need some pain in the future, but the trains do track a little more smoothly now, and there's less engine jerkiness, especially and issue with the steam locomotive due to its fixed wheelbase.

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The freight yard. I'm running the rolling stock that will mostly be in use. Unlike a lot of fancy layouts, I don't have room for sufficient track to fit all the cars I have, so manually putting them on and off will be unavoidable. The cars on there were selected mainly for being mostly shorter, and to get all the tank cars, except the long Exxon one and all my coal hoppers on the tracks. The two main industries on the layout will be oil/gas drilling and a coal mine (on the spur in the center right of the layout) with minor cattle loading and unloading on the tiny spur at the front from some local ranchers.

The overall layout theme is the eastern Rocky mountains where it transitions from plains to mountains, and in the 40s-50s. This is going to be very loose because I am not being very formal, and because I can't run the super-heavy steam locomotives mountain operations traditionally used like 2-8-8-2s, 2-8-8-4s, and of course the mighty 4-8-8-4 Big Boys. The idea is that this is a slight "alternate history" layout, and revolves around small local operations feeding into 2 trunk line tracks that lead elsewhere. The alternate part is that the railroads have solved most of the maintenance issues with steam and due to Cold War concerns are developing it alongside diesel as a hedge against possible future oil shortages. This is solely an excuse to indulge in my love of steam locomotives, not any commentary on a realistic alternate timeline.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:38 pm 
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DE, is that Touchdown Jesus in pics 1 & 2?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:39 pm 
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No, that's just my daughter's picture of Jesus with some sheep.

For those inclined to do so, let's keep the religious jokes somewhere other than the model railroad thread, please? Thanks.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Once I get the electronics installed, I will test the track with a Northern 4-8-4. If that is OK I might invest in a 4-8-8-4 since my minimum radius is 22. I will see what some streamlined passenger cars look like first. Once everything checks out OK with the track and electronics, I will start on the basic scenery. You are a couple of steps ahead of me so keep me informed of your problems.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:19 am 
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Did you used code 83, or Code 100 track?

Most of my biggest problems so far seem to be a result of me having entirely old rolling stock and locomotives and having used code 83 track by mistake. I've had a lot of problems with the turnout points not seating correctly against the rails and certain cars therefore going the wrong way on the turnout - massive derailment. A lot of very careful bending and squeezing which needle nose pliers resolved the worst cases, but I'm not out of the woods.

I would love to get a 4-8-4, but since I built mine smaller, that's pushing it on the 18" radius curves. My steam loco is a 2-8-0 and I might go as high as a 2-8-4 or 4-8-2. I'm thinking of getting a 4-6-2 for Christmas.

I also notice that you used no pier girders in your bridges, substituting Warren trusses. I think you made a wise choice there; I have found the pier girders hard to work with.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:27 am 
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Abrupt vertical transitions in the trackage might be aggravating the derailments. They can be just as bad as horizontal without being as visible. If the points don't move freely, that could cause them not to close completely against the rail as well. I did use code 83 through out. I am a beginner at this, so I'm just guessing. Since I don't have the electronics yet, I don't know how my track will perform. Throwing a scale correct wheels caboose (derails easily) by hand through my turnouts has not shown any problems yet. I noticed you used a lot of spacers under your track, so you might use a long straight edge vertically to check the trouble spots as well.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:41 pm 
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That's true, I've been correcting a lot of those, hence the need for the spacers. The problem with the turnouts doesn't seem to be with freedom of movement; I've taken care to allow them to mostly float so the motors can move the points freely. I'll try the straight-edge trick, and see if the problems persist once I'm able to convert to metal wheels.

I've noticed that some of it does not occur at the points of the turnouts; it happens at the frogs or at the similar places at the grade crossings and I'm hoping smaller wheel flanges will overcome that. On the wye turnout, when approaching from the end opposite the points on the main line (i.e. heading away from the control panel) my steam loco and one particular tank car regularly derail before they reach the points - but nothing else does. Other than that oddity, the wye turnout has the most reliable performance of all of them.

I think much of it is just older equipment and plastic wheels. A lot of this stuff was given to me by an Army buddy who was cleaning house and had no interest in trains, and the rest was mine when I was a kid and didn't know how to take care of it. I suspect a lot of the plastic wheels may have deformed due to temperature being stored over the years.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:13 pm 
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With a particular car, it might be a truck alignment issue. Swap ends and run through the same direction and see if it improves. If there is a change then there is a bind or change in the truck motion. My athern caboose will definately show a preference in this regard. Oriented with the cupola forward it won't derail with a touchy switch. Turn it around and it will show a problem. I have not figured out why this car does that yet, but I believe it relates to the truck or wheels on one end.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:49 pm 
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I have had some success doing that in some cases. Unforunately its not an option with the locomotive. Some of the truckks on some cars have noticable issues with stiff wheels and other issues.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:32 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:55 pm 
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First test run.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srxi6WsV ... e=youtu.be


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:19 pm 
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Nice run, Jerry!

Haven't had a chance to get back to the plaster. Tomorrow, hopefully.

In the meantime I did order some metal wheels for my most frequently used cars, and some kadee #148 whisker couplers that apparently are now preferred over the old hook-and-horn couplers. We'll see how that works out.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:15 pm 
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The passenger train I got has all horn type couplers that have to go. My track testing has shown at least 2 of the switches are shorting when a 16 wheel tender goes through the frogs. Doesn't bother right anything now on DC but will be a royal pain on DCC. Got figure that out. If it had plastic wheels it wouldn't be a problem.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:26 pm 
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I'm actually having the opposite problem; the insulated frogs on the turnouts are so long that at low speeds the engines will sometimes stall on them. I was very impressed with that passenger train, too. Your larger curves can handle those. My curves are too tight for 85' rolling stock. I'm considering getting one of the Riverossi 2-6-6-6 Alleghenys that are out right now; being articulated they'd do better but I'm worried about the curves. Still, if it got put carefully aside until I can build a bigger layout that wouldn't be all bad either.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:50 pm 
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The 4-8-4 showed up some problems when a full train load was attached. It isn't heavy enough to maintain traction on the 2.5 % grades. You are probably close to 5% on your layout. It tends to bounce as the drivers slip. Also I had to correct very minor kinks at the flex track joints on curves. A bounce along with a horizontal jerk would cause the tender to de-rail. Those 4 axel trucks are touchy with that scenario. I was going to do a little hill and mountain forming but I am going to wait until the track and switch electrical issues are resolved.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:42 pm 
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Yeah, the grade is pretty intense on the layout as specified by Atlas. I wish I could have expanded to the size you have, although even 2.5% is fairly significant.

On your 4-8-4, do the drive wheels actually drive the locomotive? I ask because that's the case on my 2-8-0, but not on another (inoperable) 2-8-0 I have which actually has the motor in the tender. My 2-8-0 is not as fast as the diesel locomotives but it is by far stronger in terms of ability to pull cars. I wonder if your 4-8-4, like a real engine, has less weight on the drivers due to all the trucks and therefore is having trouble?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:15 pm 
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All 8 drivers pull and it is not as fast or have the traction power of the F7A-B consist which are both powered. The F units are lot noisier. They are Athern and the Northern is a Bachmann and is very quiet running. More weight forward on the Northern will definately help in the pulling power. The leading and trailing trucks don't support anything.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:48 am 
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Ah, ok, I didn't realize your diesels were double power units.

Are you overall pleased with the Bachmann 4-8-4? I have a bachman diesel that I inherited from someone new in the box, but it only applies power on the rear truck (it's the green diesel in my photos). It runs smoothly, but it has the hardest time of all my locos on a grade. I have imposed a 4 car+caboose limit on it for that reason. With a 4-8-4 though I suppose that problem of only 1 driving truck wouldn't be an issue.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:13 pm 
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I like the 4-8-4 but its tender sucks.

http://youtu.be/G4ew_saZUVA


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:24 am 
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My tender does well going forward, but it is horrible backing through turnouts.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:22 pm 
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Two more test trains passing each other. I am rapidly concluding that my residual track issues, other than a few of the turnouts in the yard, are really issues of individual pieces of rolling stock. For example, note the blue tank car to the right, through the gap in the cardboard. That car, and a similar black one in front of it, are terrible de-railers at random intervals. The blue tank car is ridiculously underweight, so even though it rolls fairly smoothly, it jumps the track at any opportunity. The black one (not visible) is less underweight but the wheels and trucks are in bad shape. Three more tank cars led by the steam engine precede it and all perform much much better, except that there's another white one that inexplicably wants to jump the track whenever it passes through the wye turnout leading to the coal mine spur on the right side of the layout. I'm hoping the new wheels will resolve a lot of these problems by being A) smoother B) heavier and C) putting the additional weight low.

Image

My yard with a number of trains. Note the single bridge has changed from the previous picture. I decided to remove one pier girder and replace it with a second warren truss. Its an older grey one that is not the same as the black ones adjacent, but it sort of "steps down" in size and therefore doesn't look too bad. Eventually, I want to replace it and possibly the other pier girder section with black ones, similar to what Jerry did. The reason for this change was to smooth the track on the single bridge. It worked, but I need to stiffen it a little at the joints between the grey and black trusses (off to the right) and the joint between the pier girder and the grey warren truss.

Also, note the two cattle cars on the tiny spur up front. What to do with this spur is an ongoing debate:

1) maintenance-of-way depot. track repair cars, seen behind the steam locomotive, could stay here except I can fit only 2 of them and I really want at least 3, preferably 4 (crane, flatbed, gondola, and spotlight cars)
2) Engine depot. It's long enough for an engine and tender, or a diesel and caboose. Could be either fuel or water. the problem with this is that I would need to re-assign electrical block 12 from the coal spur to either this spur, or the lower portion of block 9 (from basically right below switch 8 over to where blocks 2, 3, and 9 come together would become 12. This isn't a huge issue as electrically isolating the coal spur has so far served little purpose, but it would mean some very delicate re-wiring.
3) Cattle depot. Primarily a scenery issue, and the reason the cattle cars are there right now. This spot, however, is very tight for scenery.

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The next coat of plaster/paper towel. I am rapidly coming to realize that working on the inside of that concave is going to be... a challenge. Jerry, be warned!

Image

The back side.

Image

That's 3 applications of plaster to get this far. I'm almost through the first container. Jerry, if you use plaster I think you will find yourself hard-pressed to buy too much of it.

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