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Uncle Fester
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:45 am 
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/12/pr ... for-women/

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A proposed new handbook for Americans serving in Afghanistan warns them not to speak ill about the Taliban, advocate women’s rights or criticize pedophilia, and the general in charge is not happy with it.

The draft of the newest Army handbook seems to suggest that ignorance of Afghan culture is to blame for deadly attacks by Afghan soldiers against the coalition forces, according to The Wall Street Journal, which got a peek at the 75-page document. But its message of walking on eggshells around the locals is not going over well with U.S. Marine Gen. John Allen, the top military commander in Afghanistan.

"Gen. Allen did not author, nor does he intend to provide, a foreword," said Col. Tom Collins, a spokesman for the U.S.-led coalition in Afghanistan. "He does not approve of its contents."

More than three dozen attacks by Afghan soldiers have claimed the lives of some 63 members of the U.S.-led coalition this year. The insider attacks could jeopardize plans to transfer full security control to Afghan forces in 2014.

"He does not approve of its contents."

- Col. Tom Collins, a spokesman for U.S. Marine Gen. John Allen

But a claim by their own government that they’re to blame is not likely to buoy the spirits of Americans risking their lives to serve.

"Many of the confrontations occur because of [coalition] ignorance of, or lack of empathy for, Muslim and/or Afghan cultural norms, resulting in a violent reaction from the [Afghan security force] member," the Journal quotes the draft handbook as saying.

The version reviewed by the Journal is still subject to revisions, Lt. Gen. David Perkins, commander of the Army's Combined Arms Center at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., told the Journal.

The study, based on interviews with 600 members of the Afghan security forces and 200 American soldiers, painted a grim portrait of opposing cultures with simmering disdain for their counterparts.

The draft handbook includes a summary stating that some U.S. soldiers consider Afghan forces to be “basically stupid” thieves, "gutless in combat," "profoundly dishonest" and engaged in "treasonous collusion and alliances with enemy forces."

The draft handbook offers a list of "taboo conversation topics" that soldiers should avoid, including "making derogatory comments about the Taliban," "advocating women's rights," "any criticism of pedophilia," "directing any criticism toward Afghans," "mentioning homosexuality and homosexual conduct" or "anything related to Islam," according to the Journal.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/12/pr ... z2EwXkUhy0


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"Many of the confrontations occur because of [coalition] ignorance of, or lack of empathy for, Muslim and/or Afghan cultural norms, resulting in a violent reaction from the [Afghan security force] member," the Journal quotes the draft handbook as saying.


[quote]The draft handbook offers a list of "taboo conversation topics" that soldiers should avoid, including "making derogatory comments about the Taliban," "advocating women's rights," "any criticism of pedophilia," "directing any criticism toward Afghans," "mentioning homosexuality and homosexual conduct" or "anything related to Islam," according to the Journal.

Wage that PC war!

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TheRiov
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:56 am 
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don't be daft. Not insulting your allies (including the guy next to you) is just smart. Its called playing politics. Show contempt for it all you want, but this cultural sensitivity is a key skill for life and international relations.
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Uncle Fester
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:00 am 
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How about the Taliban part, you know the enemies you are supposed to be fighting? Then again I am against any and all US troops being over there at this point.

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Uncle Fester
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:01 am 
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That and the pedophilia, if your allies are offended when you are against it you really have to shake your head sometimes.

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Rorinthas
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:01 am 
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I'm of the mind that democracy requires a certain level of moral uprightness, or at least respect for individual rights and dignity in order to function. Until a people group is ready to adhere to that level, there is no point trying to foist democracy on them. We need to do what is necessary to keep forces in Afghanistan and other places from being a threat, but its pointless to try an enact a form of government based on the morality of individual rights/freedoms on a group of tribal people who don't espouse those values.

Riov, You're right to a point. If they have any issue about feet on the table or leaving food on your plate, respect it, but shooting someone is not how we should respond to minor cultural slights. Respect is a two-way street.

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TheRiov
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:02 am 
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Its a civil war. The people they're fighting are their own countrymen, their neighbors and often their own relatives.
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Uncle Fester
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:37 am 
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Honestly how many of these Afghan troops firing on US troops have been either A) Taliban insurgents (don't insult), or B) upset you suggested women should be educated?

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Talya
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:47 am 
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Uncle Fester
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:02 pm 
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The thread or Afghanistan, either way I love you.

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Talya
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:43 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
The thread or Afghanistan


I was thinking Afghanistan, but the thread works, too.

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Midgen
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:14 pm 
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That picture, minus the text, is my current splash screen and windows desktop background on my work computer....

I get lots of questions ;p
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Corolinth
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:36 pm 
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I used it as the wallpaper on my iPad. Stuff shows up really well against the dark background.

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Arathain Kelvar
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:13 pm 
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Assuming that some actual expert thought went into this, I don't understand the objection.

We are trying to get the **** out. We don't want to change their culture more than we must to make them stable and friendly. We don't give a crap about their culture. Who cares how ridiculous their touchiness over stupid crap is?

We're in their space. If you have a list of things to do or not say that reduces the risk of you being shot at, AND potentially gets your job done faster, do it. We don't need to teach them how to behave properly.

This is just common sense.
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Diamondeye
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:59 pm 
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The idea isn't to not mention those things because it will set off any random Afghan soldier, but because it may set off an extremist or someone with poor self control. Like our soldiers, afghan soldiers are young people who don't always think things through, and they may be raised on a diet of the virtues of martyrdom and may start shooting before thinking.

Normally, this would be excessively PC, but if the option is keep your mouth shut or risk getting yourself or your buddy possibly shot or blown up... shut the **** up, and talk about it when they aren't around. The concept of "PC" is foreign to them. It isn't a matter of not offending them; it's a matter of not incurring unnecessary casualties.

As to what that says about the larger war.. you take the allies you get; the issue of whether we should be in Afghanistan notwithstanding. Contrary to some opinions, Bin Laden's death did not end our reason for being there. The Taliban is a legitimate enemy. The question is whether its worth the effort to defeat them.

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