The Glade 4.0

By the doctrines of his organization, he is allowed to retire. As I don't condone the idea of God's head man on earth over all the churches for this age (I love my independent assembly), I can't comment any further.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

What if, as I read earlier, there is a possibility of early onset dementia and he decided to step down before it became worse and he did or said something that would be devastating to the Church?? Come on, he is an old man and is tired and probably sick. Stop with the whatifs and let him be.

Disclaimer: I am NOT Catholic or religious in any way shape or form.

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"Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use one!"~ Matthew Quigley

"nothing like a little meow in bed at night" ~ Bruskey

"I gotta float my stick same as you" Hondo Lane

"Fill your hand you son of a *****!"

The man was chosen because theoretically God speaks to and through him, called him to the priesthood, guided him through the ranks to the papacy and communicates to his flock with his voice. This is not a political position (per church dogma) it is not even a secular office, it is God's intercession (aka a miracle by definition) that got him there and God decides when his burden is through.

So don't lecture me on my faith. Jerkface McDoodypants. *raspberry emoticon*

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You show me where exactly in RC doctrine that precludes the Pope ever stepping down. Roman catholic doctrine is widely available, and I've studied it fairly closely and even considered converting to it.

Furthermore, given the number of Protestants that don't understand their own **** doctrine, I'm not taking the "I'm Catholic card as evidence that you actually know what you're talking about. I can go out and find lots of Protestants that have totally butchered Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura, and turned themselves into their own little petty-ass Popes. I haven't noticed the average Catholic is any better about studying their own doctrine.

Here's another aspect of Catholic dogma: You're supposed to accept the decisions of the Pope and other elders of the Church. I don't see any Cardinals or Bishops denouncing this as improper. Do you have one to cite?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... e0786.html

No one "accepts" the pope's resignation. No one can. The last pope who retired was the last of puppet popes foisted on Catholicism by France who convened the holy see in Avignon.

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The flaw here is that DE is not Catholic. He is one of the many heretic faiths that refuses to accept that the Pope is chosen by God to be the instrument of His Will on Earth. He has this misconception that the Pope is a man, when the Pope is actually divine. That's fine, because he'll just burn in Hell with everyone else that follows the wrong branch of Christianity.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

But the article you link seems to say that he can in effect retire just that it should be ascertained that he is doing it of his own free will.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Which is **** irrelevant. What that means is that there is no higher authority on Earth that grants the resignation after the Pope tenders it. I didn't ask about that. The first line of your article:



And clearly, this guy was just abandoning the church:



Yeah, that's why he was Sainted. Clearly, it was because he abandoned his charge from God in a terrible sacrilige.

Just because no one has in 600 years does not preclude it. There hasn't been an Ecumenical Council in far longer, but that doesn't (theoretically) preclude one if the Eastern Orthodox and RC churches could come to the terms necessary to hold one. No doubt, Protestants would want a seat at the table but we don't really deserve one.

Again, I'm sure if this is a violation of doctrine, some Cardinal or other will speak on it. Where are they?

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

...

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

The debate is not on whether theology is true, it is on the doctrine itself.

As to the question of whether he is retiring of his own volition. There have been whispers for years that the Cardinals were trying to force him out by political machinations related to funding for the German churches. This view has gained wider credibility since the Church took a hardline stance during the sexual abuse claims in recent years and his strict adherence to conservative values has been viewed as a driver of the faithful away from Catholicism. His recent tiff with America's nuns hasnt helped either...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 78842.html

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Sorry Hopwin Im not subscribing just to read that article. I take it from your posts that you are Catholic. I also take it from your posts that you think it is wrong for the Pope to step down. Did you ever stop to think that he is failing in health and that he believes that God told him to step down? I am not a believer, however, I do believe that people do have God given rights to do what they believe is in their best interests. I think the Pope has decided he can no longer represent the best interests of the Church, so he is stepping down before he does damage to the Church. Just my opinion.

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"Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use one!"~ Matthew Quigley

"nothing like a little meow in bed at night" ~ Bruskey

"I gotta float my stick same as you" Hondo Lane

"Fill your hand you son of a *****!"

If it was for health reasons, they would have said it already. I really don't care about what he does so it doesn't matter to me. But if it was because he was about to die...

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Raell Kromwell

I wasn't aware of any of that Hopwin.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

*shrug*

I was taught by the Sisters of Notre Dame that the Church, though divinely mandated, is still a man-made institution and is therefore fallible. As a result I am not be a fan of the current pope, that said I am less a fan of the Cardinal's forcing him out. The Church needs to evolve to reflect its own changing demographics and to borrow a phrase from gun control nuts: the early ecumenical councils did not build a framework that can translate into the modern era unchanged. A reformer is needed desparately.

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The Pope should have to take a long walk like in Judge Dredd, bringing God to the godless.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

That's an ironically failed attempt at snark, Hannibal. Benedict was prefect for the Inquisition (Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith). The majority of his career was spent bringing God to the godless. As for why he resigned, that's between him and God. As for whether or not God accepted his resignation, that's for God to say. Intercession is not a qualifying miracle for canonization, so just being Pope doesn't mean you're on the fast track to sainthood.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Most popes end up being replaced due to "health reasons," death being a rather conclusive health reason.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

While not a fan of the current pope, I understand he is a fairly brilliant man with a deep and abiding love for the church. As with a lot of very bright people, when you start second guessing yourself and questioning your own judgment it is time to relinquish the reins of power lest you injure the people and things you love most. For whatever reason I respect his right to retire and his decision to do so.

I am a residual Catholic, I don't practice but the knee-jerk reactions are still there. The church is far from perfect, but, barring the criminal priests, it does do a lot for the great majority of the people who choose to remain in the flock.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Considering how little I care about the topic my snark went off off as planned.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

To be fair, Benedict did run on promises of Pope and change.

All throughout history, "God told me so" has been a terrific excuse for all sorts of things. It's so terrific because no one can prove you wrong. If it's so easy to believe that Benedict was made Pope as an act of God, why would it be hard to believe his stepping down was the same?

Nevermind the silliness of God requiring an instrument on Earth to act in his name, the Holy See barely has any relevance to most Catholics, let alone the rest of us. If he doesn't want to be the focal point for non-Catholic hatred anymore, let the man step down, and let someone else be us non-believers' whipping boy for a while.

Gee, it's almost like the whole chosen by God thing is total bullshit.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Or, maybe it's not, and the views of nonbelievers are not nearly as important as nonbelievers like to think.

Whipping boy indeed. Yes, I'm sure he's resigning because insecure idiots make Palpatine pictures of him.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

You see, now, here's the thing about topics of faith and religion. One of the primary, historical purposes of religion is a means of separating those who are "us" and those who are "them." To Catholics, the detractors of the Pope only see bad Photoshopped Star Wars images. To the non-Catholics, they see the sex abuse scandal, his medieval views on contraception and STD prevention, his mid-20th view of homosexuality as a disease worthy of pity, as well as other minor things like his persecution of an Italian comedienne who dared make a joke at his expense as more than just making Palpatine images.

Remember, it doesn't matter what you believe, all that matters is that other people don't believe it.