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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:24 pm 
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Berkeley, naturally

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Eight people were under arrest today after several dozen protesters shouting "no justice, no peace" attacked Chancellor Robert Birgeneau's home on the UC Berkeley campus, smashing windows, lights and planters as well as throwing torches at the home and police vehicles, authorities said.

The attack, shortly after 11 p.m. Friday, followed a four-day occupation of Wheeler Hall and the arrest of 66 people who were protesting state funding cutbacks and a steep increase in student fees throughout the University of California system. They were later released.

No injuries or fires were reported in the latest attack. Those arrested were booked on suspicion of rioting, threatening an education official, attempted burglary, attempted arson, felony vandalism and assault. They were being held Saturday in the Alameda County jail on $132,000 bail each.

"These are criminals, not activists," Birgeneau said in a statement released by the university. "The attack at our home was extraordinarily frightening and violent. My wife and I genuinely feared for our lives. . . . I urge the community and protesters to find more productive ways to express their points of view. To resort to life-endangering violence is never acceptable."

Birgeneau was home asleep at the time of the attack. His wife heard the commotion outside and called police, who responded within minutes, said university spokesman Dan Mogulof.

Between 50 and 70 protesters scattered, he said, and police were able to capture eight. Only two were UC Berkeley students, Mogulof said. Two others were UC Davis students. One person was among those arrested earlier in the Wheeler Hall occupation.

The escalation in violence, Mogulof said, shocked university officials. "This is a quantum leap beyond what had been happening here," he said. "They didn't just cross a red line, they leapt over it."

Because of the home's shatter-resistant windows and masonry construction, "it is really a matter of luck that the damage was moderate," Birgeneau said.

"The attack on Chancellor Birgeneau's residence late last night was appalling," UC President Mark G. Yudof said in a statement. "The behavior as described went far beyond the boundaries of public dissent, and such lawlessness cannot be tolerated."

There have been demonstrations by students and labor union activists at various UC campuses since regents last month voted to raise undergraduate student fees about $2,500, or 32%, by next fall.

At UCLA, authorities said they were investigating allegations that police overreacted during rallies last month outside a regents meeting in which about a dozen students and police officers reported minor injuries.


Aside from the fact that these people are protesting nothing more than having to pay more for their education in cash-strapped California, this is exactly the sort of violent leftist protest that we so often hear doesn't happen.

Note that this involves actual damage to property and attempts to burn a home with people inside it. Despite the inevitable protests otherwise, this is violent. Merely carrying a gun to a protest, neither aiming it nor threatening anyone with it, is not.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:37 pm 
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"Threatening an education official" is a crime on the books? WTF?

That said, it's nice to see that entitlement has grown so comfy in the education arena.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:50 pm 
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Ahh, riots at UC Berkeley, brings back memories of my youth, People's Park, and my pot smoking English teacher who shared that information with his students, and went on to tell us about the struggle for something I wish I could remember that the riots at UC Berkeley represented.

Then was surprised when the School Board denied him tenure and told him to move on.

That has nothing to do with this incident, I just remembered it along with the riots at UCB.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:39 am 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
"Threatening an education official" is a crime on the books? WTF?

That said, it's nice to see that entitlement has grown so comfy in the education arena.


I would imagine it's some crime that either A) grew out of teachers getting threatened in inner city schools or B) it's thretening a public official, and the press got the name wrong by specifying what type of public official.

As an aside, I first learned about this from the Cleveland Plain Dealer yesterday, where it... failed to make any significant headline, although it did at least fully explain the story. To be fair though, their banner story was about a city home loan program that (surprise!) had been loaning money to people to buy houses they couldn't afford, and all the various misbehaviors involved in that. While appalling, it was hardly unexpected with the cesspit that everything in Cuyahoga County has been for at least 5 years now.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:30 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
While appalling, it was hardly unexpected with the cesspit that everything in Cuyahoga County has been for at least 5 years now.


Well, at least public employees don't have to live in the municipality for which they work now.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:01 pm 
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How do we know that these were liberal protesters? Because they were at Berkley? Berkley may be tres liberal, but don't forget that the author of the torture memos still teaches there.

"These are criminals, not activists," so sayeth the victim. I don't understand why you would want to conflate a random act of violence with Liberals without any actual evidence to back up your claim beyond the word "Berkley".

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:10 pm 
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Well, they were protesting that they'd have to pay more for their own education, because the state is dealing with funding issues. I'd call that a bunch of liberals. *shrug*


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:12 pm 
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Its almost like its not a real poster, but a computer program designed to illustrate hypocrisy at every opportunity.


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Bery - But you have no reason to do so, other than your generalizations about liberalism. It's entirely possible that these criminals were also liberal. Having this violent act associated with liberalism without evidence is sketchy.

When I point out that conservative extremism leads directly to violence, I can point out a resonating example in the Unitarian shooter. He wrote, very clearly, that he was hunting the very liberals named in a conservative book. He had reams of conservative hate books in his house, and his note said very clearly that he was hunting liberals directly.

This is about college students pissed about their tuition, and I'm willing to bet the anger goes across ideological lines.

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Last edited by Monte on Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:13 pm 
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Ladas wrote:
Its almost like its not a real poster, but a computer program designed to illustrate hypocrisy at every opportunity.


Nice personal attack. Do you have anything substantive to add to the conversation?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:15 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Edit - But you have no reason to do so, other than your generalizations about liberalism. It's entirely possible that these criminals were also liberal. Having this violent act associated with liberalism without evidence is sketchy.

When I point out that conservative extremism leads directly to violence, I can point out a resonating example in the Unitarian shooter. He wrote, very clearly, that he was hunting the very liberals named in a conservative book. He had reams of conservative hate books in his house, and his note said very clearly that he was hunting liberals directly.

This is about college students pissed about their tuition, and I'm willing to bet the anger goes across ideological lines.


I kinda doubt it, since conservatives generally aren't all that keen on gov't paying for them. But hey, believe what you want. I'll do the same.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:21 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Nice personal attack. Do you have anything substantive to add to the conversation?

I believe my point, while not a personal attack, was made fairly clearly and doesn't require any additional explanation.

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He wrote, very clearly, that he was hunting the very liberals named in a conservative book.

Ha! So you admit liberalism causes violence!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:23 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Ladas wrote:
Its almost like its not a real poster, but a computer program designed to illustrate hypocrisy at every opportunity.


Nice personal attack. Do you have anything substantive to add to the conversation?

So report it. For someone who loves authority and bureaucracy telling us all how to live, you don't seem to grasp the use of it's channels very well.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:23 pm 
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Ladas wrote:
I believe my point, while not a personal attack, was made fairly clearly and doesn't require any additional explanation.


It was a personal attack, not only in it's attempt to dehumanize, but to call me a hypocrite. Don't hide from it. Don't try to obfuscate your choice to come into this thread and piss on it. You came in and took a blatant shot, entirely unprovoked, and entirely uncalled for.

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Ha! So you admit liberalism causes violence!


So, I assume you think blacks were at fault for being lynched, then?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:25 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
So report it. For someone who loves authority and bureaucracy telling us all how to live, you don't seem to grasp the use of it's channels very well.


This, as well, is a personal attack. I don't tell you how to live, I don't *love* authority and bureaucracy. Those are slams you attribute to me, born from your irrational and emotional distaste for me as a person.

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Calling your positions and statements hypocritical is not a personal attack, its an accurate description of your posting history.

Here you are attempting to distance the concept of liberals from the actions of this crowd (potentially correctly) on the basis that association with a location/event does not support the conclusion. Yet, one of your recent examples of right wing extremists and violence is a black man carrying a firearm in the open, in violation of no laws.

Or was that example just hiding your deep distrust of black men capable of defending themselves?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:35 pm 
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Monte wrote:
How do we know that these were liberal protesters? Because they were at Berkley? Berkley may be tres liberal, but don't forget that the author of the torture memos still teaches there.

"These are criminals, not activists," so sayeth the victim. I don't understand why you would want to conflate a random act of violence with Liberals without any actual evidence to back up your claim beyond the word "Berkley".


Because it's a common element of liberalism to want extensive pulic funding of education. Quit trying to be cute. Regular old criminals do not just go decide to torch some random university official's residence out of the blue. Conservatives are also not known for anger over making people pay for their own education.

This is patently absurd. These were a bunch of liberals. It's just astounding that all of a sudden when liberals are caught doing violence, it's "well, they might not be liberals" on the thin justification that they didn't wear t-shirts saying "I'm a liberal" or whatever kind of evidence might actually satisfy you.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:51 pm 
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Ladas wrote:
Calling your positions and statements hypocritical


That isn't what you did.

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Diamondeye wrote:

Because it's a common element of liberalism to want extensive pulic funding of education.


And it's a common element of being a student to protest rising tuition costs.

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Quit trying to be cute.


Who is trying to be cute?

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Regular old criminals do not just go decide to torch some random university official's residence out of the blue. Conservatives are also not known for anger over making people pay for their own education.


Yay for straw man arguments and broad brush generalizations about liberals *and* conservatives. The truth is, there is nothing connecting these crimes with any sort of liberal activism. The word "Berkley" was mentioned, and a lot of assumptions were made.

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This is patently absurd. These were a bunch of liberals.


Why, because they were at Berkley?

So, the next time there's a hate crime against a homosexual, can I just assume it was committed by a bunch of Christians?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:14 pm 
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Monte wrote:
That isn't what you did.

Yeah, it is... "illustrate hypocrisy at every opportunity"... i.e. your posts are textbook examples of hypocrisy.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:50 pm 
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Monte wrote:
And it's a common element of being a student to protest rising tuition costs.


It's a common element of being a student to dislike rising tuition costs. It is not common at all to protest them, nor attempt to sack the houes of university officials at all. Tuition costs have been rising stedily for years; protests have been few.

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Who is trying to be cute?


You. You are seriously asserting that the student body at Berkeley is not almost compeltely liberal? Why would a conservative subject themselves to 4 years at such a place?

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Yay for straw man arguments and broad brush generalizations about liberals *and* conservatives. The truth is, there is nothing connecting these crimes with any sort of liberal activism. The word "Berkley" was mentioned, and a lot of assumptions were made.


No, it occured at Berkely, and no assumptions were made. No strawman was made either; you were the one who brought up criminals.

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Only two were UC Berkeley students, Mogulof said. Two others were UC Davis students. One person was among those arrested earlier in the Wheeler Hall occupation.


Since Davis and Berkeley are both part of the same university system, they'll both get the tuition hikes. The Wheeler Hall occupation mentined was specifically about this tuition and was by liberals.

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This morning (Friday)[DEC 11th -DE] at about 4:30 AM UC police entered Wheeler Hall and began arresting activists who were staying there overnight as part of continuing protests against budget cuts and fee hikes.

Protesters have been staging an “open occupation” at Wheeler since Monday, holding talks, discussions, hip hop performances and other events as part of their effort to create an open university that is not only for the people, but by the people.

At least 66 were arrested and taken to Santa Rita Jail. They are expected to be released sometime today.

Campus spokesperson Dan Mogulof said the reason for the arrests was that the demonstrators were going to hold a hip-hop party this evening that would go on indefinitely into tomorrow morning.

But the demonstrators and their supporters said that they had received assurances from the police earlier in the week that they would be allowed to remain in Wheeler, so they believed that this police action was entirely unnecessary and illegitimate.

The “open university,” its supporters said, was entirely peaceful, non-disruptive of normal activities going on in Wheeler Hall, and hence an exercise in free speech.

At the very least, said those who were gathering in front of Wheeler at mid-morning today prior to a scheduled rally at noon, there could have been negotiations with the administration about the planned party and other “open university” activities.

UC Berkeley sent out a press release at 10:35 a.m. saying that at least 66 trespassing students and other protesters had been arrested Friday morning, the same day the group was set to hold an unauthorized concert inside a classroom building.

The press release said that protesters were arrested without incident at 4:40 a.m. for misdemeanor trespassing inside Wheeler Hall and transported to Santa Rita jail.

The university said the group included “approximately 41 individuals believed to be UC Berkeley students and 24 individuals not affiliated with the campus.”

Another individual seeking to cause a disruption outside Wheeler Hall was also arrested, bringing the total arrest count to 66.

The statement said that “the protesters, who have maintained an illegal, though largely non-disruptive, 24-hour presence inside Wheeler Hall since Monday, claimed to be doing so in the name of “opening the university.”

It said that since entering Wheeler Hall Monday, the protesters set up information tables inside the building, laid up food and refreshments, posted banners, strummed guitars, watched movies, played late-night music and declared the building an “open university.”

The statement said that “earlier in the week, they appeared to be taking steps to ensure that their activities would not conflict with classroom review sessions underway inside the building.”

Later in the week, “the group began publicizing plans for an unauthorized all-night concert featuring guest artists and a DJ—an event that threatened to disrupt final examinations that are scheduled to take place in that same building tomorrow,” the statement said.

Although campus staff talked to event organizers about the issue, the statement said, “the protesters vowed to go forward.”

Publicity materials distributed by the group stated that the concert would start Friday night and go on till 8 a.m. Saturday and

until “the cops kick in the doors.”

Final examinations are scheduled to begin inside Wheeler Hall at 9 a.m. Saturday.

“Once the group refused to reconsider plans to hold an unauthorized all-night concert in an academic building, we had to take steps to ensure that finals could go forward,” said Dan Mogulof, campus spokesman. “Our primary responsibility is to the campus’s core academic mission and the 35,000 students who are not participating in the protest.”

Business hours for Wheeler Hall, which has one of the largest number of classrooms on campus, is until 10 p.m. daily.

The statement from UC Berkeley said that the trespassers—ranging from a dozen to several dozen at any given time this week—were not authorized to hold events or sleep overnight in the building, and were cautioned by police that their actions could lead to arrest and student conduct code penalties.

Friday’s arrests come in the wake of the Nov. 20 Wheeler Hall occupation, arrests and allegations of police brutality which was documented by scores of people on their cameras and cell phones. More than a 100 UC Berkeley professors signed a letter condemning the action. The UC Berkeley administration promised to set up an independent review panel to investigate the allegations of police force.

On Friday, campus police and security personnel were keeping watch outside Wheeler, barring anyone except authorized faculty and staff from entering.

The university said that classroom review sessions which were scheduled to take place at Wheeler would instead take place at a nearby building as indicated on fliers posted outside.

UC Berkeley Chancellor Robert Birgeneau issued a statement expressing his appreciation to the UC Police Department, “for the very patient and professional way in which they handled this week's events at Wheeler Hall. They managed several days and nights of occupation with foremost concern for the safety of our campus community and early this morning helped bring about a peaceful end to the takeover of Wheeler Hall in a timely way so that final exams can proceed as scheduled tomorrow.”



Are you seriosuly going to suggest anyone other than a liberal would want an "open university, of the people and by the people" whatever the hell that means? Or that it's sheer coincidence that the attack on the official's home contained an arrestee from this event and it happened right after?

LA Times

Quote:
“[We want] a university that is accessible to all people, that is free to all people and that educates people," Owen said in a telephone interview. "


Yeah.. that's definitely not a liberal. :roll:
The other 3 people could easily be students elsewhere; the fact that they are not students at Berkeley or Davis hardly means they are not college students elsewhere. In any case

Quote:
Why, because they were at Berkley?


Are you seriously suggesting the population at Berekely is anything other than heavily liberal? Or that protests against rising tuition, especially by people demanding that it be free are by anyone other than liberals?

The fact that a few hooligans may also have showed up and gotten caught as well does not change the fact that liberals instigated the entire thing.

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So, the next time there's a hate crime against a homosexual, can I just assume it was committed by a bunch of Christians?


If it happens inside a church during a worship service, go right ahead. That's the analogy you're making.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:04 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
You. You are seriously asserting that the student body at Berkeley is not almost compeltely liberal? Why would a conservative subject themselves to 4 years at such a place?
UC-Berkeley happens to have some programs that are top 5 in the world for the various areas of study. And conflating Berkeley County with the University is probably not a legitimate tactic of argument.

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I'm with monty on the personal attacks. comparing him to a random hypocrisy generator is not attacking a specific position. lay off so every thread doesn't degenerate.


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For those unfamiliar with the area

Berkeley is in Alameda County, California.

Berkeley is a Nuclear Free zone. The detonation of nuclear weapons is strictly prohibited by city law. They're not fond of nuclear power plants either.

Berkeley is a neighbor of Oakland, CA. Both are right across the bay from San Francisco, CA. The area contains very wealthy people and all spectrums down to homeless street people within a ten minute bus ride.

Yes, it is a liberal enclave, but there are plenty of conservative people in the area. Since it is in a major metropolitan area, there are lots of things to do, lots of places to go, and you can find 'people like you' if you seriously want to look.

And, as Khross mentioned, UC Berkeley is one of the gems of the University of California. Depending on your major, you would be willing to put up with the leftist lean of the student body and majority of faculty to get the education available there.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:37 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
You. You are seriously asserting that the student body at Berkeley is not almost compeltely liberal? Why would a conservative subject themselves to 4 years at such a place?
UC-Berkeley happens to have some programs that are top 5 in the world for the various areas of study. And conflating Berkeley County with the University is probably not a legitimate tactic of argument.


I haven't called into question the academic quality of Berkeley's academics, nor have I conflated anything. Every time I refered to Berkeley, it was a reference to the college; I don't think a casual reader would think I was referring to anything but the college.

That said, it is not at all uncommon for colleges and universities to reflect the political tenor of the area they are located in and vice versa. I grew up from 6th grade to 12th grade in Swarthmore PA, home of Swarthmore college. Both were equally liberal. I think a political map of universities around the country would closely resemble one of the country at large.

From the University itself:

UC Berkeley News

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More than 60 percent of UC Berkeley students consider themselves very liberal while 16 percent call themselves some flavor of conservative.


That's 60% considering themselves very liberal versus only 16% conservative of all types.

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