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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:52 pm 
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Any one who does not share the raw data on their papers should have their science degrees/masters/phds revoked. It's like science 101 people >.<


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:17 pm 
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Fun facts from Denmark!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenh ... edges.html

Quote:
Ms Jorgensen reckons that between her and her rivals the total number of limos in Copenhagen next week has already broken the 1,200 barrier. The French alone rang up on Thursday and ordered another 42. "We haven't got enough limos in the country to fulfill the demand," she says. "We're having to drive them in hundreds of miles from Germany and Sweden."


Quote:
And the total number of electric cars or hybrids among that number? "Five," says Ms Jorgensen. "The government has some alternative fuel cars but the rest will be petrol or diesel. We don't have any hybrids in Denmark, unfortunately, due to the extreme taxes on those cars. It makes no sense at all, but it's very Danish."



ahh Limousine liberals!

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:15 pm 
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http://www.cphpost.dk/climate/91-climat ... ummit.html

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:52 am 
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FarSky wrote:
Using people without power in freezing temperatures and car crashes to take a cheap shot at global warming. Classy.

Is it really any less classy than using hurricane victims without power in flooded areas to bolster cheap support for global warming?

The media in general is pretty tacky in its quest for a meta-narrative.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:43 pm 
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Stathol wrote:
FarSky wrote:
Using people without power in freezing temperatures and car crashes to take a cheap shot at global warming. Classy.

Is it really any less classy than using hurricane victims without power in flooded areas to bolster cheap support for global warming?

The media in general is pretty tacky in its quest for a meta-narrative.



Double standards in politics! Astounding! :) Guess some people missed every hurricane/hot day / dry spell being "proof" of global warming. I guess that is why they switched it too Climate change, so they can always be right.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:11 pm 
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Khross: I'm not deflecting the issue, I posted in response to the two quotes Dash used and tried to address the notion that those quotes revealed any new information. As to the larger issue:
Quote:
...these individuals admitted collusion to prevent dissenting opinions from getting published.

The e-mails provide evidence that they colluded to keep certain papers out of the IPCC report, which they failed at. They also may have colluded to boycott Climate Research because:
A) an editor at Climate Research subverted the peer-review process to publish the Soon and Baliunas paper (what they and many others say),
B) they disagreed with opinions voiced in the Soon and Baliunas paper (what you and other skeptics say).

I agree that boycotting a journal was not the correct response to the perceived problem, however they did offer a public and supported rebuttal to the paper as well, which is the correct response.

As to how many papers with dissenting opinions were not published because of a possible boycott, the answer is probably zero. There is no evidence in the e-mail that specific papers were targeted.

Khross and Kaffis: There are 4 independent databases of instrument recorded worldwide temperatures, the CRU's compilation is one of 4. In addition, the raw data which was thrown out (before Jones started working at the CRU) was compiled from existing sources, so it still exists in some form.

Dash: I'm sorry, your reply in kind was warranted.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:16 pm 
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Telumehtar:

I'm aware of the four major temperature indices in use for Climate Research. I'm also aware that the only index showing a warming trend prior to March of 2009 was the CRU's. The NOAA NCDC Index conspicuously became the warm outlier in a matter of 30 days after a new director was appointed. We discussed this much earlier in the year.

The emails are damning, especially since there seems to be little consistency or regard from science by the policy direction climatologists. And the peer-review issue is still rather major, since those scientists are on peer-review boards for multiple journals.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:44 pm 
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The emails are not damning. There is nothing in the emails to suggest any sort of conspiracy, cover up, or attempt to generate a global hoax. The emails you are reading are taken out of context (and were stolen for the purpose of doing exactly what they have done - to muddy the waters on this issue and give people already predisposed to deny reason to continue doing so, loudly).

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:53 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:02 pm 
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Monte wrote:
The emails are not damning. There is nothing in the emails to suggest any sort of conspiracy, cover up, or attempt to generate a global hoax. The emails you are reading are taken out of context (and were stolen for the purpose of doing exactly what they have done - to muddy the waters on this issue and give people already predisposed to deny reason to continue doing so, loudly).


Argumentum ad nauseum.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:42 pm 
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Monte wrote:
The emails are not damning. There is nothing in the emails to suggest any sort of conspiracy, cover up, or attempt to generate a global hoax. The emails you are reading are taken out of context (and were stolen for the purpose of doing exactly what they have done - to muddy the waters on this issue and give people already predisposed to deny reason to continue doing so, loudly).

Taken out of context? They were displayed in whole. What exactly do you purport is the correct context?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:17 pm 
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I object!!

On what grounds?

This is devastating to my case!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:20 am 
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Al Gore admits to making stuff up.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2009/12/ ... -dont-add/

Quote:
Gore, speaking at the Copenhagen climate change summit, stated the latest research showed that the Arctic could be completely ice-free in five years.


Quote:
In his speech, Gore told the conference: "These figures are fresh. Some of the models suggest to Dr. [Wieslav] Maslowski that there is a 75 percent chance that the entire north polar ice cap, during the summer months, could be completely ice-free within five to seven years."

However, the climatologist whose work Gore was relying upon dropped the former vice president in the water with an icy blast.

"It's unclear to me how this figure was arrived at," Dr. Maslowski said. "I would never try to estimate likelihood at anything as exact as this."

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:47 am 
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In his face!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:48 am 
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Screeling wrote:
In his face!


This is going to be my new sig.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:58 am 
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I can't tell you how many times I had to stop and realize your signature was not something I posted in a particular thread.

"Why am I being quoted? I haven't posted here.... Oh yeah... Kashi."

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:07 am 
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Perfect Equilibrium
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Everyone needs to be informed about Kashi. I'm almost done with my 9am bowl.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:44 am 
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The more I hear about Al Gore, the more I think he's corrupt, and just trying to make a dime.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:50 am 
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How could he be corrupt? He only stand to make millions off the posistion he pushes. I am sure his intentions are 100% noble, and that he is just putting his money where his mouth is.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:05 am 
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http://biggovernment.com/2009/12/16/cli ... more-47538

Quote:
Over at ICECAP.us Meteorologist Joe D’Aleo has posted an item on a “Russian Bombshell” highly relevant to the ClimateGate scandal. The Russian media first posted the story and now some Brits are loving it.

The long and the short of it is best summarized by the Telegraph’s James Dellingpole: “What the Russians are suggesting here, in other words, is that the entire global temperature record used by the IPCC to inform world government policy is a crock.”
That is, we have yet further evidence that the data is being cooked to make the long-running claim of an increase in global temperatures, and now to diminish the apparent cooling of said temps. As the gang at EU referendum tout, “it is in Soviet Union that the CRU, NOAA, NASA show the greatest warming.”

Around the world temperature stations have been widely decommissioned in rural and higher elevations, and we see an over-emphasis on increasingly urbanized (and therefore warmer) stations in the curious selection process as to what temperatures should count, and how much. The latter point references the fact that the data is then adjusted, and we are also seeing an increase in adjusting urbanized (that is, artificially warm) temperature records not down, but upward.

Excerpted in pertinent part, Joe Writes:
Quote:
On Tuesday, the Moscow-based Institute of Economic Analysis (IEA) issued a report claiming that the Hadley Center for Climate Change based at the headquarters of the British Meteorological Office in Exeter (Devon, England) had probably tampered with Russian-climate data.

The IEA believes that Russian meteorological-station data did not substantiate the anthropogenic global-warming theory. …The data of stations located in areas not listed in the Hadley Climate Research Unit Temperature UK (HadCRUT) survey often does not show any substantial warming in the late 20th century and the early 21st century.

The HadCRUT database includes specific stations providing incomplete data and highlighting the global-warming process, rather than stations facilitating uninterrupted observations. …
IEA analysts say climatologists use the data of stations located in large populated centers that are influenced by the urban-warming effect more frequently than the correct data of remote stations.

The reason this cherry-picking is relevant — as is the apparent similar gamesmanship being played with other countries examined in recent days including China and New Zealand — because our NOAA compiles the global dataset and the rest work from it. So when CRU claimed that it “lost” its raw data, what they’re saying is the claim to have lost which stations they chose from NOAA’s compilation, making it impossible for those who wish to check it to discern how they got the answer they did.

If it is what it appears to be, and my dozen years working with these people and the past few weeks peeking further inside thanks to ClimateGate tell me that it is, then this is root-cause corruption.

Meanwhile, they are scrambling madly to stitch up an agreement in Copenhagen politically committing the U.S. to the long-desired wealth-transfer. The question is which moves faster, the collapse of the increasingly likely scientific fraud, or the global governance set.

Links to other articles at the source, if anybody's interested.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:22 am 
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And Hillary just stated in Cabonhagen that the US is prepared to donate $10 billion a year for 10 years to the pool of money to help "developing countries deal with global warming".

But no new taxes on those making under $250,000....


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:01 pm 
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Khross, you mentioned the leaked e-mails implicate Mann? Apparently,
not so much

More and more, we are coming to find out that (shocking, I know) the people willing to break the law to acquire these emails were (gasp!) also willing to misrepresent them to the public, out of context.

Shocking. Just shocking.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:10 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Khross, you mentioned the leaked e-mails implicate Mann? Apparently,
not so much

Using your standards of evidence, we cannot count anything from that website, as its a climate change shill.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:47 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Khross, you mentioned the leaked e-mails implicate Mann? Apparently,
not so much

More and more, we are coming to find out that (shocking, I know) the people willing to break the law to acquire these emails were (gasp!) also willing to misrepresent them to the public, out of context.

Shocking. Just shocking.


I don't understand why you are so willing to accept the inconsistencies and irregularities suffered in this process. I thought you were super question-what-the-establishment-says-and-protect-the-little-guy guy.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:24 pm 
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Not when those irregularities and inconsistentcies are born from an establishment *he likes* promoting an end *he* finds *likeable* and *fashionable*.

Given that fact, I find his signature *highly* amusing.

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