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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:17 pm 
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You guys disappoint me almost as much as the media.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:09 am 
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I thought about posting it, but I kinda guessed how the convo would go, especially since I couldn't find a good article outside. fox news.

Also listening to the video almost made me physically ill to the point of wondering what would have happened in if my stomach wasn't empty, and I didn't want to inflict that on anyone else.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:38 am 
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We were imitating the media.

Honestly it is a failure of every level of oversite, the PA state inspectors should be next on trial as to why this was swept under the rug. The hospital I work at has frequent and stringent inspections both state and Joint Commision (JACHO), who do the full white glove test.

This story hits on all arguments, abortion, class, race, something for everyone to chew over. Reading the details makes abortion, "normal" and late term a horror.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:46 am 
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http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/ ... arthy?pg=1

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Standard fare was the “snip.”

“Snip” is a terse, antiseptic word. Like “choice,” it is tailored to those rare, discomfiting occasions when the intentional killing of a “however way you want to describe it” must be spoken of rather than silently done. It is an effort, as much mentally as verbally, to evade the monstrousness we abide in the United States, where nearly 60 million children — a population roughly equal to that of France or the United Kingdom — have been aborted since the Supreme Court’s 1973 fatwa in Roe v. Wade.

In a “snip,” the abortionist, sharp scissors in hand, grasps the squirming and sometimes squealing baby he has just delivered. He stabs the child in the back and then, snapping the blades, severs the spinal cord from the brain. Massof described the snip as “literally a beheading. It is separating the brain from the body.”



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In an uncharacteristically de trop outburst, the five justices in the narrow Carhart majority described varying abortion procedures with startling clinical precision. Most common is the first-trimester “suction curettage,” in which the “physician” vacuums the unwanted “embryonic tissue” from the womb. By the time the second trimester is reached, this “tissue” has matured into the unmistakable shape of a child. Thus the “dilation and evacuation” procedure is often called for.

Employed millions of times in this most civilized country over the last half century, “D&E,” the court explained, involves the “physician’s” use of forceps “to tear apart” the “fetus” by “ripping” it from the cervix and then “evacuating the fetus piece by piece . . . until it has been completely removed” from the mother. Often, the justices observed, the D&E “physician” finds it more congenial to “kill the fetus a day or two before performing the surgical evacuation,” since “medical” experience has shown that, “once dead . . . the fetus’ body will soften,” becoming “easier” to dice and remove. Oh, another helpful tip: “Rotating the fetus as it is being pulled decreases the odds of dismemberment.”



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The right-handed surgeon slides the fingers of the left [hand] along the back of the fetus and “hooks” the shoulders of the fetus with the index and ring fingers (palm down). While maintaining this tension, lifting the cervix and applying traction to the shoulders with the fingers of the left hand, the surgeon takes a pair of blunt curved Metzenbaum scissors in the right hand. He carefully advances the tip, curved down, along the spine and under his middle finger until he feels it contact the base of the skull under the tip of his middle finger.

The surgeon then forces the scissors into the base of the skull. . . . He spreads the scissors to enlarge the opening. . . . The surgeon [then] removes the scissors and introduces a suction catheter into this hole and evacuates the skull contents. With the catheter still in place, he applies traction to the fetus, removing it completely from the patient.

“Evacuates the skull contents” may be more bracing than “snip,” but it doesn’t quite do justice to the process and the frightful insouciance behind it. That was left to a nurse who had watched Haskell perform the “procedure” on a six-month-old “however way you want to describe it.” She recalled that, once all but the head had been delivered,

the baby’s little fingers were clasping and unclasping, and his little feet were kicking. Then the doctor stuck the scissors in the back of his head, and the baby’s arms jerked out, like a startle reaction, like a flinch, like a baby does when he thinks he is going to fall.

The doctor opened up the scissors, stuck a high-powered suction tube into the opening, and sucked the baby’s brains out. Now the baby went completely limp. . . . He cut the umbilical cord and delivered the placenta. He threw the baby in a pan, along with the placenta and the instruments he had just used.



now those are the LEGAl abortion proceduces (the partial is illegal in PA, hence the trial charges). Gosnell managed to go with barbarity and malpractice beyond this. My own gut feeling is this was a psychoitc who got a medical degree

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:05 am 
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Who?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:41 am 
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I'll be honest, I tuned out around about "fatwa."

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:25 am 
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There's honestly not much to discuss here. I don't think you're going to find anyone on the board that thinks third trimester abortions are acceptable.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:00 am 
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I was tempted to post it, but as the seemingly lone "crazy" pro-life voice I figured everyone would ignore me.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:21 am 
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This thread shows exactly why I didn't bother.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:50 am 
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I supposed we could talk about the Delaware one and get that out of the way too:

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?secti ... id=9059172

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Delaware abortion clinic facing charges of unsafe and unsanitary conditions

April 9, 2013 (WPVI) -- A local abortion clinic is under fire, facing allegations of unsafe and unsanitary conditions.

A series of emergency calls made from the Planned Parenthood of Delaware this year are raising concerns about what's happening behind the closed doors.

Two former nurses who both quit are speaking exclusively with Action News about what they saw inside.

Mitchell-Werbrich, former employee said, "It was just unsafe. I couldn't tell you how ridiculously unsafe it was."

Werbrich alleges conditions inside the facility were unsanitary.

"He didn't wear gloves," said Werbrich.

Another former employee, Joyce Vasikonis told Action News, "They were using instruments on patients that were not sterile."

The former nurses claim that a rush to get patients in and out left operating tables soiled and unclean.

Werbrich said "It's not washed down, it's not even cleaned off. It has bloody drainage on it."

"They could be at risk of getting hepatitis, even AIDS," added Vasikonis.

Both of these nurses said, they quit to protect their own medical licenses, stunned by what they called a meat-market style of assembly-line abortions.

Vasikonis said, "I felt I could be held liable if a patient was harmed."

"Planned Parenthood needs to close its doors, it's needs to be cleaned up, the staff needs to be trained, said Werbrich."

In Delaware, abortion clinics are not subject to routine inspections. The state only steps in when they have a patient complaint. Planned Parenthood is essentially in charge of inspecting itself.

Mary Peterson from the Delaware Department of Health and Human Services said, "I am not going to lie to you, we don't have the manpower to do routine inspections."

She says, her investigators went into the facility in October of last year after a complaint.

We asked Peterson, did they find any problems with the sterilization of utensils. She told us "no, no." We then asked if blood was being left after one patient had surgery and another one came in, she replied, "absolutely none."

Investigators say, they have not found evidence to support the claims raised by Vasikonis and Werbrich.

Since January 4th, five patients allegedly have been rushed from the facility to the emergency room, again placing the clinic in the spotlight.

Peterson says, it raises concerns and they are in the process of looking into what is causing the issues to occur.

Action News has learned during our investigation that one doctor and two more nurses at the clinic have mysteriously left.

Planned Parenthood would not confirm if they were fired or resigned.

In a statement, the new CEO, Ruth Lytle-Barnaby told Action News:
"Planned Parenthood of Delaware has provided high-quality services for more than 80 years. Each year, we provide confidential, compassionate care that includes breast cancer screenings, birth control, prevention and treatment of STDs, Pap tests, sexual health education, abortion, and health counseling to more than 11,000 women, men and teens in all three Delaware counties.

Planned Parenthood's medical standards and guidelines are informed by the most trusted medical knowledge as well as professional and scientific organizations such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Food and Drug Administration, the United States Preventive Services Task Force, and the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.

In my role as the new CEO of Planned Parenthood of Delaware, recently my staff and I launched a review of patient services. I determined that we need to take immediate steps to assure our patients of our high-quality care, including enacting immediate personnel changes. We do not tolerate employees that fail to meet our standards for patient care and services.

Ensuring high-quality care and maintaining the valued trust of our community is of the utmost importance. In addition to the significant steps I have already taken, at my invitation, a team of medical experts from our national office is on site to confirm we are addressing every concern. We are confident patient care is high quality, but if we identify any additional issues with our quality of services we are prepared to take swift action. Any employee who does not live up to our standards of patient care will be terminated. Patient health and safety has always been and remains our top priority."


Once again I will say Planned Parenthood facilities are no better than back-alleys.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:55 am 
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Every article I see wants to talk about screaming babies and scissors, use Islamic words the author and readers don't understand, and carry on about liberals initiating genocide against human children. Nevermind that this is a case of real malpractice. Unlicensed staff are carrying out medical procedures with unsanitary equipment. The conditions are absolutely deplorable, but all of that would have been okay if they just weren't performing abortions.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:15 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
Every article I see wants to talk about screaming babies and scissors, use Islamic words the author and readers don't understand, and carry on about liberals initiating genocide against human children. Nevermind that this is a case of real malpractice. Unlicensed staff are carrying out medical procedures with unsanitary equipment. The conditions are absolutely deplorable, but all of that would have been okay if they just weren't performing abortions.


Because that's exactly what people are saying, and obviously the issue of a child that is actually able to scream being "aborted" isn't a problem, and people don't care at all about the unsanitary conditions. :roll:

Abortion early on in pregnancy, prior to viability is a totally different issue from this, and while the pro-life people may want to engage in a lot of hyperbole and propaganda, in this case they're right. When you abort a baby that is able to survive outside the mother, scream, kick, and wave its hands, then you're killing an actual person no matter how you do it. It doesn't really matter how sanitary the conditions are. In point of fact, this "doctor" is on trial for murder, not medical licensing, because he was committing murders and trying to disguise them as abortions.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:52 pm 
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I'll say this. Had some fella used an AR-15 to mow down kids in the hospital infant ward, I'd bet there would be some press.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:54 pm 
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It was front page news on CNN's page


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:07 pm 
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I feel like we already had the discussion about Gosnell two years ago when the reports first started coming out. Not much to say, he was murdering babies, that's all there is to it. A disgusting human being that deserves to have his own spine severed at the neck.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:09 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
It was front page news on CNN's page
It was front page news on CNN's page no less than a week after the indictment proceedings were made public record. CNN was late. The rest of the mainstream media was late. Amusingly, people I'd rather not call journalists had been talking about Gosnell for over a month before CNN picked it up; and CNN picked it up because a journalist from The Atlantic was outraged no one was mentioning this.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
I feel like we already had the discussion about Gosnell two years ago when the reports first started coming out. Not much to say, he was murdering babies, that's all there is to it. A disgusting human being that deserves to have his own spine severed at the neck.

If he had performed that procedure without the baby popping out onto a table it would've been perfectly legal though.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:26 pm 
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He was doing illegal, late-term abortions, so no it would not have been "perfectly legal" if they hadn't popped out onto a table first.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
He was doing illegal, late-term abortions, so no it would not have been "perfectly legal" if they hadn't popped out onto a table first.

Go read the story.

From above:
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The right-handed surgeon slides the fingers of the left [hand] along the back of the fetus and “hooks” the shoulders of the fetus with the index and ring fingers (palm down). While maintaining this tension, lifting the cervix and applying traction to the shoulders with the fingers of the left hand, the surgeon takes a pair of blunt curved Metzenbaum scissors in the right hand. He carefully advances the tip, curved down, along the spine and under his middle finger until he feels it contact the base of the skull under the tip of his middle finger.

The surgeon then forces the scissors into the base of the skull. . . . He spreads the scissors to enlarge the opening. . . . The surgeon [then] removes the scissors and introduces a suction catheter into this hole and evacuates the skull contents. With the catheter still in place, he applies traction to the fetus, removing it completely from the patient.


So long as the procedure is contained within the mother it is legal.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:47 pm 
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Meh. I have a hard time getting het up about this.

The world doesn't need more unwanted children.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
So long as the procedure is contained within the mother it is legal.


That's definitely something that we should change, but right now it doesn't fall under the born alive rule.

IMO abortions shouldn't be allowed past the 8 week mark, when we stop calling it an embryo and call it a fetus. That's plenty of time to find out you're pregnant and decide if you want to keep it or not.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:04 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
So long as the procedure is contained within the mother it is legal.


That's definitely something that we should change, but right now it doesn't fall under the born alive rule.

IMO abortions shouldn't be allowed past the 8 week mark, when we stop calling it an embryo and call it a fetus. That's plenty of time to find out you're pregnant and decide if you want to keep it or not.

Dat.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:08 pm 
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Kermit Gosnell is not Jack Kevorkian. This is not the precursor to a profound discussion about the nature of human life and the reproductive cycle, the way Jack Kevorkian spurred discussion about personal autonomy and what rights we have to weigh the quality of our lives and choose death.

This is a textbook case of malpractice. Gosnell was performing abortions that were illegal for numerous reasons which have absolutely nothing to do with Roe v Wade. If Gosnell were performing heart transplants and curing cancer, he could still be put away for life.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:20 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Meh. I have a hard time getting het up about this.

The world doesn't need more unwanted children.



Pretty disgusting.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:34 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Nitefox wrote:
Müs wrote:
Meh. I have a hard time getting het up about this.

The world doesn't need more unwanted children.


Pretty disgusting.


So are babies that aren't wanted that society has to pay for. Its an unpopular opinion because "babies are precious" or whatever. They're not. We can make more pretty easily and for free. In some places, too easily.



Here's hoping you never have a kid of your own. You're a nasty person. Didn't think you were that low.

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