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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:46 pm 
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The president can not say this was terrorism? What was it a human facillitated disaster?

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whit ... oston-expl

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At 4:37, Kristof tried to walk back his comment: "People jumping on me for criticizing Sen Repubs for blocking ATF appointments. ok, that was low blow. i take it back." He deleted his original tweet.

Liberal Esquire columnist Charles Pierce immediately went political, speculating:

Obviously, nobody knows anything yet, but I would caution folks jumping to conclusions about foreign terrorism to remember that this is the official Patriots Day holiday in Massachusetts, celebrating the Battles at Lexington and Concord, and that the actual date (April 19) was of some significance to, among other people, Tim McVeigh, because he fancied himself a waterer of the tree of liberty and the like.

MSNBC's Luke Russert wondered about a possible home-grown connection, tweeting, "I was at Fenway Park w my dad and @mikebarnicleduring Waco which was on Patriots Day in 1993. Speculating on possible link."

Former MSNBC host Cenk Uygur speculated about American racism in reaction to the attack. He tweeted, "Our reaction as a country to Boston Marathon is going to be completely different if it's a Muslim w/ a bomb or a white shooter w/ a gun."

Is it too much to ask that columnists refrain from immediately politicizing this tragedy?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:53 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbc-news/51546956/

DE how large a device does it take to make that big a boom?


Not large. That was not a terribly big explosion. Looked in the neighborhood of 60mm to 81mm mortar round equivalent. Very dangerous to unprotected, unsuspecting people though, small enough for 1 person to carry several. Dunno about the actual device, thats just a rough guess on explosive power. Possibly enhanced with metal bits for shrapnel, but buildings look essentially intact so not a very big explosion.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:00 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
The president can not say this was terrorism? What was it a human facillitated disaster?

It may turn out to be just some nutjob with no political agenda, in which case it wouldn't be terrorism.

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Obviously, nobody knows anything yet, but I would caution folks jumping to conclusions about foreign terrorism to remember that this is the official Patriots Day holiday in Massachusetts, celebrating the Battles at Lexington and Concord, and that the actual date (April 19) was of some significance to, among other people, Tim McVeigh, because he fancied himself a waterer of the tree of liberty and the like.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully it is just another Tim McVeigh wannabe rather than a jihadist cell.

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Former MSNBC host Cenk Uygur speculated about American racism in reaction to the attack. He tweeted, "Our reaction as a country to Boston Marathon is going to be completely different if it's a Muslim w/ a bomb or a white shooter w/ a gun."

As it should be. Different threats require different responses. What a tool.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:03 pm 
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What the **** does he mean "is going to be" and "if its a gun." Does he not know the difference in appearance between an explosion and a shooting?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:23 pm 
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Because they've gotta keep on the gun control script DE.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:23 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbc-news/51546956/

DE how large a device does it take to make that big a boom?


Not large. That was not a terribly big explosion. Looked in the neighborhood of 60mm to 81mm mortar round equivalent. Very dangerous to unprotected, unsuspecting people though, small enough for 1 person to carry several. Dunno about the actual device, thats just a rough guess on explosive power. Possibly enhanced with metal bits for shrapnel, but buildings look essentially intact so not a very big explosion.


I figured half a pound of c4 equivalent or thereabouts. Not huge, but did look fairly high velocity. I don't think ANFO would have done that.

And I'm not a bomb expert, but I did watch a lot of Mythbusters at a holiday inn last night.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:25 pm 
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Wonder if it was tannerite. Only reason I wonder is because it's come under fire by the BATFE for it's use in some YouTube videos. Notibly by FPSRussia.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:32 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
I should point out that the reason the position is held is solely because of people like the ones in this thread who are crucifying this guy. If people weren't so prone to overreaction, or weren't so offended by other people and other opinions existing in the world, we wouldn't have this issue.


So excuse the guy who said it and poo poo on us who called it out.

Got ya.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:49 pm 
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Micheal Moore joining in.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Nitefox wrote:
So excuse the guy who said it and poo poo on us who called it out.

Got ya.


Nice try. We're not excusing him for his stupid opinion, we're just rightfully saying it belongs to him and not NYT.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Lenas:

Except where I disproved that assumption by providing proof that Kristof is on the Editorial Staff at the NYT and is using the NYT bio-page to advertise the aforementioned and offending twitter account. It seems to me, I put a smoking gun in your hand, but you're choosing to ignore it. He behaved poorly and in a professionally and ethically inappropriate manner.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:57 pm 
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Nitefox wrote:
FarSky wrote:
I should point out that the reason the position is held is solely because of people like the ones in this thread who are crucifying this guy. If people weren't so prone to overreaction, or weren't so offended by other people and other opinions existing in the world, we wouldn't have this issue.


So excuse the guy who said it and poo poo on us who called it out.

Got ya.

Pretty much. It's not exactly calling someone Hitler, is it? On an offensiveness scale of 1 to Godwin's, what he said ranks somewhere below a "yo mama" insult. But if you want to be that rankled by slight dickishness, have fun.


Last edited by FarSky on Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:58 pm 
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Lenas wrote:

Nice try. We're not excusing him for his stupid opinion, we're just rightfully saying it belongs to him and not NYT.


Not these days.

I follow lots of guys from ESPN on twitter. Any of them say something that makes the company look bad, official account or personal. They are usually punished. Have no reason to think this isn't any different. Question is if the Times punishes him.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:58 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Nitefox wrote:
So excuse the guy who said it and poo poo on us who called it out.

Got ya.


Nice try. We're not excusing him for his stupid opinion, we're just rightfully saying it belongs to him and not NYT.


C'mon Lenas, you're not that dense...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:59 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
Nitefox wrote:
FarSky wrote:
I should point out that the reason the position is held is solely because of people like the ones in this thread who are crucifying this guy. If people weren't so prone to overreaction, or weren't so offended by other people and other opinions existing in the world, we wouldn't have this issue.


So excuse the guy who said it and poo poo on us who called it out.

Got ya.

Pretty much. It's not exactly calling someone Hitler, is it? On an offensiveness scale of 1 to Godwin's, what he said ranks somewhere below a "yo mama" insult. But if being that rankled by slight dickishness offends you, have fun.


He's right that the ATF could use a director. And senate repubs are dicks for blocking a nom. However, this isn't the time for those comments.

Its not the message, its the timing.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:00 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
Pretty much. It's not exactly calling someone Hitler, is it? On an offensiveness scale of 1 to Godwin's, what he said ranks somewhere below a "yo mama" insult. But if being that rankled by slight dickishness offends you, have fun.


Did I say it did? All I did was post a response to Festers bet. You and Lena's are the ones with your panties in a wad about it.

Your a big movie buff. Fan I of Michael Moore?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:00 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
Pretty much. It's not exactly calling someone Hitler, is it? On an offensiveness scale of 1 to Godwin's, what he said ranks somewhere below a "yo mama" insult. But if being that rankled by slight dickishness offends you, have fun.
Except for the fact you're ignoring the following:

1. He chose a totally inappropriate vehicle for the comment.

2. Said vehicle is linked directly from his biographic information on the New York Times public facing portion of their website.

3. He has a responsibility to be professional and maintain some degree of journalistic integrity.

You guys want to jump on me for being annoyed the guy was dumb enough to Tweet a thought he should have known better than to throw at the public? That has nothing to do with my politics. He should lose his job for all the reasons I've mentioned, not the least of which is editorial misconduct at this point.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:01 pm 
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I should note that there is a whole "bombings that killed and grievously wounded over a hundred people" thing going on, too. Maybe that's worthy of discussion somewhere on the board.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:02 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
I should note that there is a whole "bombings that killed and grievously wounded over a hundred people" thing going on, too. Maybe that's worthy of discussion somewhere on the board.


So why did this tangent garner your attention?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:09 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
I should note that there is a whole "bombings that killed and grievously wounded over a hundred people" thing going on, too. Maybe that's worthy of discussion somewhere on the board.
Alright, how do you want to discuss this?

Are we going with the slant provided by "On Point" on NPR? Their call-screening is biasing the content pretty appallingly, in my opinion, right now.

Or are we going to go with the very reasonable response provided by the President? (Props to him) We don't know what happened, exactly; we don't know who did it; we don't know why. I actually really like that response. What I don't like is ...

1. Politicizing it for gain in non-related matters: i.e. (and egregiously) gun control.

2. Politicizing it at all ... actually.

Seriously.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:20 pm 
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Khross, honest question. Doesn't the President's response seem both tepid and a blatant admission that we were caught with our pants down?

If someone (or more likely someones) can plant 5 bombs at will throughout a major metropolitan area in the midst of a high profile event with elevated security, isn't that a rather damning indictment of the DHS, intelligence community (both foreign and domestic) and the Federal Government as a whole?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:23 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
Khross, honest question. Doesn't the President's response seem both tepid and a blatant admission that we were caught with our pants down?

If someone (or more likely someones) can plant 5 bombs at will throughout a major metropolitan area in the midst of a high profile event with elevated security, isn't that a rather damning indictment of the DHS, intelligence community (both foreign and domestic) and the Federal Government as a whole?


Yes and no.

Yes because they're foolish to think they can stop everything.

No because they really can't stop everything.

Honestly, I doubt it took very much effort at all to "plant" a few bombs in some trash cans near a heavily populated area.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:26 pm 
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Midgen wrote:
C'mon Lenas, you're not that dense...

Depends who's asking, I guess.


Khross wrote:
Except where I disproved that assumption by providing proof that Kristof is on the Editorial Staff at the NYT and is using the NYT bio-page to advertise the aforementioned and offending twitter account. It seems to me, I put a smoking gun in your hand, but you're choosing to ignore it. He behaved poorly and in a professionally and ethically inappropriate manner.

I don't mean to ignore you, but I still disagree. I guarantee that the social media links are not on his profile page by his own choice, that's a company and marketing decision. Unfortunately you're condemning this man to a life of no opinion, because every single avenue of expression that he has is going to be largely followed by people because of NYT. That still doesn't mean that he's a spokesperson for NYT.

I'm open to PM's, no need to derail the thread any further.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:34 pm 
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Müs wrote:

Yes because they're foolish to think they can stop everything.

No because they really can't stop everything.

Honestly, I doubt it took very much effort at all to "plant" a few bombs in some trash cans near a heavily populated area.


I walk up to a trash can with a paper or even a plastic bag.

I gently drop the bag into the trash bag designated for that purpose.

Why would this be suspicious?

What if there are several people involved? Then you have several people dropping (as far as we know) bags of trash into trash cans.

The ones they found set up under a gazebo would worry me a bit more, but what if there were no witnesses watching, all being distracted by the runners going by?

It is very understandable how they set it up. People seeing other people doing perfectly normal things do not get suspicious.

The question, other than general mayhem and murder, is why? No one seems to have claimed responsibility/taken credit for it yet. This could change at any second. This could be a Unibomber wannabe and this is just the start. We just don't have enough information yet.

Give it 24 hours, then see what they've uncovered.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:42 pm 
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That's why I say it didn't take a whole lot of effort. Dude dumping a small box with explosives and a timer/detonator into a trash can, NBD. Couple of dudes doing it? Still NBD.

I'm still puzzled over the why as well. Usually whatever nutbag is responsible claims it pretty quick.

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