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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:44 pm 
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DFK! wrote:
5 years? 10 years? 100 years? Because, if you were logically consistent, your stance could be taken to mean certain things that the Democratic party needs to STFU about, like Jim Crow (as just one of many examples that spring to mind).

Jim Crow! Another one of the Democratic party's greatest hits.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:41 pm 
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RangerDave wrote:
DFK! wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
Corolinth wrote:
Quick, can anybody name the party of the president who ordered citizens of Japanese descent to be placed in concentration camps?

Can anybody name the party that formed the Ku Klux Klan to stop blacks from voting?

Dated references are dated.


Hmm. Let's grant you that point. At what point do things "stop" becoming "dated," by which I assume you mean "not relevant?"

I think it's less a function of the pure passage of time than of intervening events / mechanisms of change. The US political system underwent a significant realignment over the course of the 60, 70s and 80s, resulting in the rural, white, southern, voters in the base of the Democratic Party shifting over to the Republican Party. On foreign affairs, the Vietnam War broke the centrist consensus, with the more hawkish gravitating toward the Republican Party and the more dovish gravitating toward the Democratic Party. And so on, and so forth.

Mostly, though, I'm just saying, "Which party was most closely associated with the KKK in 1865, and which party ordered the internment of Japanese Americans in 1945 are not particularly relevant to the question of which party is more inclined to torture a terrorism suspect in 2013, and even if there was some tenuous relevance, it would be completely overshadowed by more current and obvious data points (like, for example, Lindsay Graham's Twitter feed).


Why is that relevant while the history of the party is irrelevant? Logically inconsistent.

I mean, the ol' Grand Dragon Robert Byrd never left the party, and he was alive and active until a couple years ago. Does that invalidate your statement?

My point is that you're not really listing any objective factors.

Regardless, the current party is more active in civil rights offenses than any previous administration. It's like one after another is trying to beat each other in how egregious they can be.

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Last edited by DFK! on Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:01 pm 
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Longer then "read my lips" yet somehow shorter than " I did not have sexual reations with that woman"

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:44 pm 
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Since we're on that topic RD, where'd you obtain that video, and why does it have no audio, and how do we know there was no warrant involved? Or are you just pandering to the irrational Glade fear of a "police state"? Trying to lump the 60's 70's and 80's together is particularly disingenuous; that's an entire growth to adulthood. The real fact of the matter is that the south didn't truly shift Republican until 1988; long after those that held politcal power during the fight for segregation in the 1960's were dead or at least elderly. The simple fact is that it is a common habit of the left to claim the Republicans acquired responsibility for all white southern racists (which mysteriously has expanded to mean all white rural dwellers, southern or not) as soon as the 1968 election rolled around, disregarding its actual results. But at the same time, Democratic actions prior to 1965 are "dated".

You know what else is dated? "dog whistles".

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:40 pm 
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Yup, right on time.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:41 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
Yup, right on time.


Likewise.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:21 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
Yup, right on time.


Is that a Mussolini reference?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:38 am 
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RangerDave wrote:
Mostly, though, I'm just saying, "Which party was most closely associated with the KKK in 1865, and which party ordered the internment of Japanese Americans in 1945 are not particularly relevant to the question of which party is more inclined to torture a terrorism suspect in 2013, and even if there was some tenuous relevance, it would be completely overshadowed by more current and obvious data points (like, for example, Lindsay Graham's Twitter feed).
The evidence in 2013 says that Democrats are more likely to torture ANYONE. You keep screaming the Republicans are worse, but it was a Democratic Congress that wrote the legislation which makes this possible; it's a Democratic Congress that won't pursue impeachment options against a President that has order the summary executions of American citizens (sorry, Yemen is not an official combat zone); it's a Democratic President who hung an entire embassy out to dry, because no matter what lies his press secretary told us, Barack Obama is the only man on the planet who can give a stand down order that affects both the CIA and members of the Armed Forces, particularly since soldiers were not operating under CIA sanctions in Libya.

Just no ...

Stop ignoring all the **** that makes Obama as bad, at the very least, as George W. Bush. It's intellectual dishonest, and it's merely you repeating false propaganda that's easily verifiable as false.

And, in case it wasn't clear, it was a Democratic Federal and Democratic State government that just **** on the 4th and 5th Amendments all over international broadcast mediums.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:06 pm 
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We need to hear about stuff like this too.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/f ... 1tRwLUppAO

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:45 pm 
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Awesome story, thanks for sharing Nitefox.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:56 am 
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Ron Paul doesn't like the implications on liberty of the manhunt tactics used in Boston.

http://lewrockwell.com/paul/paul858.html

Spoiler:
Liberty Was Also Attacked in Boston
by Ron Paul


Forced lockdown of a city. Militarized police riding tanks in the streets. Door-to-door armed searches without warrant. Families thrown out of their homes at gunpoint to be searched without probable cause. Businesses forced to close. Transport shut down.

These were not the scenes from a military coup in a far off banana republic, but rather the scenes just over a week ago in Boston as the United States got a taste of martial law. The ostensible reason for the military-style takeover of parts of Boston was that the accused perpetrator of a horrific crime was on the loose. The Boston bombing provided the opportunity for the government to turn what should have been a police investigation into a military-style occupation of an American city. This unprecedented move should frighten us as much or more than the attack itself.

What has been sadly forgotten in all the celebration of the capture of one suspect and the killing of his older brother is that the police state tactics in Boston did absolutely nothing to catch them. While the media crowed that the apprehension of the suspects was a triumph of the new surveillance state – and, predictably, many talking heads and Members of Congress called for even more government cameras pointed at the rest of us – the fact is none of this caught the suspect. Actually, it very nearly gave the suspect a chance to make a getaway.


The “shelter in place” command imposed by the governor of Massachusetts was lifted before the suspect was caught. Only after this police state move was ended did the owner of the boat go outside to check on his property, and in so doing discover the suspect.

No, the suspect was not discovered by the paramilitary troops terrorizing the public. He was discovered by a private citizen, who then placed a call to the police. And he was identified not by government surveillance cameras, but by private citizens who willingly shared their photographs with the police.

As journalist Tim Carney wrote last week:

“Law enforcement in Boston used cameras to ID the bombing suspects, but not police cameras. Instead, authorities asked the public to submit all photos and videos of the finish-line area to the FBI, just in case any of them had relevant images. The surveillance videos the FBI posted online of the suspects came from private businesses that use surveillance to punish and deter crime on their property.”

Sadly, we have been conditioned to believe that the job of the government is to keep us safe, but in reality the job of the government is to protect our liberties. Once the government decides that its role is to keep us safe, whether economically or physically, they can only do so by taking away our liberties. That is what happened in Boston.

Three people were killed in Boston and that is tragic. But what of the fact that over 40 persons are killed in the United States each day, and sometimes ten persons can be killed in one city on any given weekend? These cities are not locked-down by paramilitary police riding in tanks and pointing automatic weapons at innocent citizens.

This is unprecedented and is very dangerous. We must educate ourselves and others about our precious civil liberties to ensure that we never accept demands that we give up our Constitution so that the government can pretend to protect us


Also, suspect was finally read his rights. Tyrants legislators upset.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/20 ... rrogation/

Spoiler:
Lawmakers Upset Judge Ended Tsarnaev Interrogation

By John Parkinson
Apr 25, 2013 7:42pm

Federal Bureau of Investigation/AP

A federal magistrate judge has set off a firestorm of criticism for ending the interrogation of the surviving Boston Marathon bombing suspect before, lawmakers contend, law enforcement officials had concluded their initial interview.

On Monday morning, Magistrate Judge Marianne B. Bowler visited Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s hospital bedside to preside over his first court appearance, reading him his Miranda rights and informing him of his right to remain silent. That ended the suspect’s cooperation in questioning that the Department of Justice’s High-Value Interrogation Group had begun under a public safety exception to Miranda, when it can legally question a suspect without a lawyer present.

Tsarnaev, a naturalized U.S. citizen, had only just begun answering questions in writing.

“He stopped cooperating,” Rep. Mike Rogers, chairman of the House Intelligence committee, said today. “The FBI will tell you, they don’t believe that they got the information, all the information that they would have liked about the public safety factor in the interrogation.”

Following a classified briefing Wednesday evening, Rogers, a former FBI special agent, sent a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder seeking an explanation into Bowler’s actions, which he suggested may have been “sua sponte” — of one’s own will – and not fully coordinated with law enforcement officials conducting the interrogation.

“We have to piece together, were there other people involved,” Rogers, R-Mich., told ABC News today. “We were in an interview trying to develop that rapport with this individual so that they would tell us if there is a public safety concern here with other bombs and other individuals. Now we just won’t know.”

Rep. Pete King, who also sits on the Intelligence committee, pointed to a slate of questions the FBI was unable to ask, including whether there were additional co-conspirators, other explosives or whether there was any foreign connection or training.

“The interrogation ended, and yet my understanding is that the FBI wanted to continue doing it,” said King. ”This certainly was cut short and why it was done by the attorney general and why the FBI wasn’t notified about it in advance, why it wasn’t discussed, I just don’t have the answer.”

DOJ officials maintain that the surviving suspect’s silence has not impacted their ability to prosecute the suspect, and they contend nothing precludes the suspect from agreeing to take more questions in the future.

“Consistent with the Rules of Criminal Procedure, following the filing of the criminal complaint in this matter on Sunday, the Court, that evening, scheduled an initial appearance for Monday, which it then coordinated with the prosecutors, federal defender, court reporter, U.S. Marshal Service and the hospital,” DOJ spokesperson Dean Boyd said. “The Rules of Criminal Procedure require the Court to advise the defendant of his right to silence and his right to counsel during the Initial Appearance. The prosecutors and FBI agents in Boston were advised of the scheduled initial appearance in advance of its occurrence.”

King also criticized the FBI for not notifying New York officials until Wednesday night that the brothers had intended to continue their carnage in Times Square.

“If the ultimate target was to hit New York, New York should have been warned, should have been on notice and should have been ready to take whatever action they had to,” King said. “We have to find out why the FBI did not notify N.Y.C. immediately as soon as they heard that there was a possible attack against Times Square.”

“For us not to be told immediately, once there was even a hint of a threat against Times Square and against Manhattan, again we need a real explanation on this, what went wrong,” he continued. “I thought in a post-9/11 world, there would be instant communication, instant sharing of information.”

ABC News’ Pierre Thomas contributed to this report

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