The Glade 4.0

*So sorry, this one REALLY runs long*

For those who have been following my family saga over the past 3+ years and remember this thread and this thread and this one too, I have the following update.

As of Xmas morning, I haven't seen my mother but once or twice leading up to Easter. Oonagh has not set foot back in their house, nor has she seen them since.

Following our "no-show" at their house on Easter day, thus began their begging and pleading once again to "lets just talk and make this better now" because they say so. Oonagh and I have completely cut ourselves and our kids out of their lives. The only way they have any chance to make it better with us now is through counseling.

"But Foamy," says the Glade, "You said the same thing years ago and now you are in the same situation."

It is different now. I have crossed lines with my "mother" and have said things that would make a priest cry. Upon our resolute stand against them, I finally have gotten them to cave to family counseling. This time with a licensed Psychologist instead of a generic family counselor/social worker.

This past Wednesday and Sunday were my daughter and son's 1st and 4th birthday, respectively. On Wed, my mom shows up at my house as we were getting home from work and we basically snubbed her. She was not to see the kids until I have gone to the first counseling appointment to see what the Doctor suggested for the full-on family session. We went on our merry way and left my mom standing alone in our driveway on my daughter's 1st birthday. Let's not forget, this is the granddaughter that was too sick for my mom to want to watch and also the granddaughter who has been in the presence of her grandparents about 3 or 4 times over the first year of her life.

Oonagh and I go to our appointment on Thursday night with the Doctor and lay out the miserable history that is my family. The hour goes quickly by and we are planning on the next appointment. Initially, we don't really want to continue because we really just want them out of our lives instead of having to spend time, effort and money to try and heal years....excuse me, DECADES of hurt. I change my mind and decide that since I have their word that they will finally come to a counselling session that I would make that little effort. If "mom" and "dad" do not give their equal effort with counseling, then it is completely over between my family and them.

The appointment is made for two Thursdays from now and I decide to hold off calling “mom” until after the weekend because I just don’t want to talk to her and didn’t want to ruin my son’s birthday weekend. That didn’t go so well as when they came knocking on my door yesterday afternoon expecting to see their grandson on his birthday. I did not answer the door as Oonagh was out with the baby and my son was napping. After I didn’t answer the door, they proceed to go around the block to my in-law’s house and barge in on them. My in-laws, who are wonderful, kind people, did not turn them away and were then stuck with them. I caught wind of this and call their house and tell them to leave my in-law’s house as they have nothing to do with this. They do not do so and I am forced to go over there to confront them. I go in and tell them to leave and they again refuse. I asked my in-laws to now rescind the invite to them so they can now be led away for trespassing if it got to that point.

It did not, but amidst my dad telling me to “Just get over it” and “You’re nothing to me”…I think he may have said I’m dead to him…Oh, and lets not forget his second time pulling out this ol’ chestnut “I don’t want to see you, your wife or those kids ever again!”, I trying to give my “mom” the time/date/location of the upcoming therapy appointment.

My “dad” refused to agree to come, continuing to tell me to “Just get over it”. I told him the only way to communicate any more is in the presence of a professional. He scoffed at this and asked what makes him a professional, “Because you say so?” He then threw in that he wasn’t going to sit in front of this person to be told that he is wrong. JUST GET OVER IT!

Well, I couldn’t get much of a word in edgewise and decided to write out the appointment details on a sticky note because neither of them would shut up long enough to let me finish all the info about the appointment. I then left and found out that shortly after, my “parents” left my in-laws house. So my dad is refusing counseling and I think my “mom” has a perception that we are going to go once and all will be well. For all I can tell, this is over. She won’t respond well to therapy and some more sort of hell will break loose.

When the counseling fails, I will tell them that is it. My phone numbers will change and a restraining order will likely be taken out. I will let them know that now the ball is in their court. If they want to continue counseling after that, they can go through the motions of setting it up and coordinating it.
I’ve had it with these f*cking people I am cursed with having to call my parents. “mom” told Oonagh that she’ll see her in hell. Honestly, that is the only place I care to see my parents anymore, they can both burn in the fires of hell.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

Foamy, I say this in nothing but a desire to see the best for you and Oonagh.

Stop. Just stop. You're past the point of "one more chance." Now you're doing nothing but coming up with excuse after excuse after excuse to justify a relationship with them because you don't really want to cut them off entirely.

It's not going to stop. It's not going to get better. You're wasting your time, your money, and your own health and well-being (to say nothing of your family's).

Be strong, man up, and put your foot down. End it, and end it definitively, but most of all end it now.

Farsky:

Yeah. I think I am there, but the last bit is the counseling. I want to know for myself that I did EVERYTHING possible to try and effect change.

If all I get from them is "No counseling, JUST GET OVER IT!!!" Then excising them from my life will be so much more easy than it would have been those three years ago when I said the same thing.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

But that's the thing: the time before this was the "last bit." And the time before that. And the time before that. If that doesn't work, you'll come up with some other "last bit" idea.

It's hard to do. God knows it's hard to do. I'm close to people who have gone both ways. The people who have the strength to realize the futility and break it off are a lot happier. The people who keep coming up with "one more thing" chances? Miserable.

You're past the point of second chances, or third chances, or five-hundredth chances. You've already done everything you can. You're now talking about taking out restraining orders on them. There aren't just a couple of therapy sessions standing between "happy healthy family" and "restraining order." It's too far now. You don't have to wish them ill, or take joy in their absence. But they're unhealthy for you, and they're unhealthy for your family.

End it, please.

Foamy,

I'm always reticent to give advice in threads like this, as I have zero qualifications for it, and don't have enough insight into the individuals involved, but I'm just curious. Have you and Oonagh considered re-locating? Moving far enough away that you aren't having to concern yourself with this on a day to day basis?

Yes, and unfortunately moving far enough away from my parents means we are also moving far away from Oonagh's parents.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

Foamy - you're doing the right thing. Carry on.

As much fun as it would Be to say somethink like give your parents a trip to Las Vegas. Give Arafys their pictures and itinerary. Ask no questions. Yeah, that doesn't work here.

FarSky is right. Wrap up this last chance. Assuming they refuse follow through wrap it up. Consider moving far enough away that it isn't easy for your folks to jus drop over and suck up the time and gas to maintain relations with Oonagh's folks.

You have tried and tried. They still refuse to engage and behave. It is over and you all lost. File a restraining order. Make your life happier.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

I agree Micheal. They're not even worth using my 2 for 1 backhoe rental coupon on.

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Holy shitsnacks!

I wish I could say I thought Foamy was doing the right thing, but he's not. If he were, he'd have dropped these whackjobs years ago.

I understand why you didn't, Foamy. It's hard to cut loose from your parents. It's hard to accept that they're a poison in your life. It's especially hard when you've been indoctrinated from a young age to honor thy father and mother, because nobody ever tells you that some fathers and mothers don't deserve it.

You're too concerned with being a dutiful son, and society perceiving that you're doing the right thing. You're not the son, anymore. Being the dutiful son is not the right thing. Being the father is the right thing to do. That comes first. You're "Dad," now. Oonagh is Mom. That's the important parent-child relationship. Your parents are done being Mom and Dad. Their children are grown. They're Grandma and Grandpa, now. If they can't respect you and Oonagh as parents, then they need to get the **** out. And after the saga of Foamy as I've heard it, if your brother's not ready to help you bury the bodies, **** him, too.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Coro:

Honestly, it's like you went into my brain, stole my thoughts, typed them out and put your name on them.

EVERY-F*CKINGTHING you just said is exactly what I am wrestling with in my head, both now and three years ago when I fought this battle about my son.

My "dad's" words may have sealed it this time. I know now that what teensy-weensy, itty-bitty, iota of respect for him, is now blown out the door. His words have now cut me to the core and I know he means them. Leaving them out of our lives has been easier because we rely on them for NADA. No babysitting, NOTHING. If they vanished from the face of the earth this very moment, my life would change in no appreciable way that I am aware of.

The counseling is just pissing in the wind, I think. It won't work, but I'm going to go for myself anyway. I'm going to look for that way out so that I can be left without the guilt of thinking I didn't try hard enough.

Farsky:

Thank you for the caring sentiment. Know this, though. What counseling I continue with at this point is what I need to be 100% certain I did what I could to salvage what can be. They have mentally abused me to the point that I don't know what is real anymore. They twist words, they lie, they tell stories the way that they want to suit the situation, they deny things that were said mere minutes before. I need the counseling moreso at this point to try and heal what damage they have caused in my head and heart, than to try to repair any relationship with them.

I don't want a relationship with them anymore. Honestly, I don't. They won't let that go, though. I have to figure out how to be the strongest husband and father I can and keep them at bay because I don't know that they'd ever stop. Add to that my violent brother's tendencies, and I actually fear some sort of attack should I cut them out entirely. To think that I may have to defend my home/wife/children/myself against my own brother by any means necessary, frankly scares me.

Thanks all for listening and commenting. This has been counseling for me as much as any of the professional help I have seen. All of your words have been taken into consideration and I appreciate it much more than I can possibly convey here in a simple post.

Thank you all, from the bottom of my shattered heart.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

Me against my brother
My brother and me against my family
Me and my family against my clan
Me and my clan against the world
-Somali proverb



Interesting order of priorities I came across once. I think you're at the me and my family (nuclear family) against your clan.


Point is, sometimes the hierarchy of priorities has to remove blood relationships from the mix. You're past the point of "if" on that, and even past the point of "when," I think. You're at the point of "do it now, before your son is old enough to have social/emotional damage from it."

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

I have been to the Doctor (psychologist) twice now. Once with Oonagh, and once yesterday by myself, after the miserable incident on Sunday. The next appointment was going to be Thursday 16th with "mom" included (We'll see if she keeps her word, I doubt it).

It was amazingly helpful to me to have an impartial ear listening to me. I talked mostly and laid out the years of leadup to this...My "mother's" affairs/boyfriends, the fights, the gambling, the stealing of money from me, my "dad" pushing me slowly away....everything.

He knows where I am coming from and understands completely and asks me if I think there is any hope of even making a relationship with them anymore. I tell him that there is barely a modicum of an iota of a chance, but am not truly hopeful. He says that he thinks I need to be at a point where, when they die, I can look back with little to to regret that things ended up this way. I told him that I am already there. I know that I have done EVERYTHING I could think of to try to get some sort of hope for this family. When this counseling fails, I can leave them with no further guilt.

Two Thursdays from today, Oonagh and I will be sitting in this Doctor's office across from my "mother". That is the last words I left her with...Time, date, location, Dr. and practice name, directions to there. She claims that she is going to me there, my dad FLAT OUT refused and I don't expect him to be there. Oonagh and I have sensed that my "mom" thinks that this is a one and done deal. My mother-in-law (with no prompting from me whatsoever) thinks she picked up the same vibe from her...that she is going to go to one appointment with Oonagh and I and all will be well.

"mom" is in for a rude awakening. I am ready to listen and respond to everything she will say that I have done wrong to her over the years, but not without some sort of mutual understanding that she has caused the darkness in my heart, nothing else. Oonagh's well being is another story. I really don't believe that my "mom" will ever admit to wronging her one bit. "mom" is blinded by her own unhappiness. Since she is unhappy, she doesn't care about the fact that it has been her actions to both myself and Oonagh has made us unhappy with her.

I said "when the counseling fails". Some might see this as I have already given up and what is the point of the counseling anyway. Well, I know what to expect from this person I have to call "mom" and I know she will not open up to me, and definitely not Oonagh. She is in for a rough ride and I can't see her taking it without someone other than the Doctor on her side.

It will probably fail, and truthfully, I think I want it to so I can finally be happy in knowing that I have attempted to salvage whatever may be left to the best of my abilities. I can be happy once this is either in motion for a while, or just over completely.

I will have no regrets if (when) this fails, and not a single one of them..."mom" "dad" or "brother" will ever tell me otherwise again.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

My advice remains unchanged from high school.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville