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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:05 pm 
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It's about the failure to regulate a procedure (his clinic and many others in the state haven't been inspected in decades) out of fear of the abortion debate. If he were practicing GP, he'd get an inspection and injunction at the slightest whisper of someone dying quickly after being in his care.

I'm willing to admit not all abortion doctors are Gosnell, just like all GPs are not Jack Kevorkian, but all of them GPs and abortion doctors alike, should be inspected and investigated when something funny happens.

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Last edited by Rorinthas on Tue May 14, 2013 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:06 pm 
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Khross wrote:
100% of our nation's problems are caused by people.

That's just what they want you to think.

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:07 pm 
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RangerDave:

Just because you're afraid of bovine species is no reason to attribute human problems to them. What are you, a speciesist?

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:07 pm 
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Can't trust those Moother ****.

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:23 pm 
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Khross wrote:
100% of our nation's problems are caused by people.

There's a solution to that.

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:26 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Khross wrote:
100% of our nation's problems are caused by people.
There's a solution to that.
I'm not sure the solution is better than the problem, to be honest. I'm mostly rather fond of people.

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Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:30 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Well, liberals are hailing this verdict and using this to highlight what all women would have to deal with if abortion were outlawed.

Are we? Dammit, this is what I get for not going to all the meetings.


No idea if you are or not. Liberals are. I didn't say ALL liberals.


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:34 pm 
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Well to answer a question above I am pro-life so huzzah to the verdict but that also means to me the death penalty is off the table. No matter how heinous the crime, revenge is not the answer, nor should it be the intent of our legal system.

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Why do you think it's merely revenge? If it is, then isn't everything we do to criminals (after all we can't fix it). Then why do anything at all? Honestly trying to understand.

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:34 pm 
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Incarceration to me should be intended to do one of two things: 1) reformation or 2) protect society from irredeemable people via life sentences.

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:36 pm 
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Revenge, or rather, retribution is important to justice. It means that the criminal has not been treated as greater than the victim.

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:37 pm 
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If society needs to be protected, why not exterminate the vermin?

Why should society have to pay a shitton of money to house and care for someone that can't be allowed into the sandbox to play nicely with others?

Why does the life of a serial murderer even matter anymore?

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:45 pm 
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Khross wrote:
100% of our nation's problems are caused by people.


Not true, unless you include natural disasters effect on people as being caused by people. Earthquakes, hurricanes, floods and non-people caused fires (lightning strikes mostly) are not caused by people. People putting themselves in the way of a lot of that is caused by people.

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:47 pm 
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DE & Mus, not here to argue. Just giving my answer, ya'll do and believe what you want.

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 9:02 pm 
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Khross wrote:
RangerDave:

Just because you're afraid of bovine species is no reason to attribute human problems to them. What are you, a speciesist?

Pshaw, some of my best friends are cows.


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 10:15 pm 
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For me, in addition to the historical/spiritual ramifications, It's a matter of scope.

If the highest penalty in the land is life without the possibility of Parole, then that's what you give the worst criminal you can ever imagine.

After that you have to work your way down from there. So does an unrepentant mass murder who'd more than happily do it again get the same penalty as a more domestic, less likely to kill again person.

I don't think "It costs too much" should be a consideration though. You know we used to make convicts work (prison farms, rock breaking, license plates) in this country, but we stopped for some reason.

I think we should make them do level 1 tech support, rather than farming it overseas. The convicts could receive a wage to go against certain non-essentials and the "profit" from the contracts could help fund prison essentials. It's really a win-win.

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 11:11 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
Well to answer a question above I am pro-life so huzzah to the verdict but that also means to me the death penalty is off the table. No matter how heinous the crime, revenge is not the answer, nor should it be the intent of our legal system.

I'm not comfortable with legalized abortion, but I'm dead set against abortion clinics getting any federal money of any kind. I haven't checked, but I wonder if this guy got government funding.

I'm not wanting the death penalty revoked though. If I was faced with the option bunches of decades or even life in prison and there was an option to take death, I'd gladly take death. I'm just guessing, but I'd guess most would agree with me.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:17 am 
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Another one in TX?

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Second 'house of horrors' abortion clinic where doctor 'twisted heads off fetus' necks with his bare hands' is investigated in Texas
Houston doctor Douglas Karpen is accused by four former employees of delivering live babies during third-trimester abortions and killing them

Witnesses said he would either snip their spinal cords, stab a surgical instrument into their heads or twist their heads off with his hands

Texas Department of State Health Services is using in its investigating of the doctor

Accusations come days after Dr Kermit Gosnells was found guilty of murdering newborns at his Philadelphia abortion clinic

By Helen Pow

A second 'house of horrors' abortion clinic is being investigated in Texas, just days after Dr Kermit Gosnells was found guilty of murdering newborns at his Philadelphia termination center.

Dr. Douglas Karpen, seen here in court, is accused of killing babies aborted in their third trimester

Houston doctor Douglas Karpen is accused by four former employees of delivering live fetuses during third-trimester abortions and killing them by either snipping their spinal cord, stabbing a surgical instrument into their heads or 'twisting their heads off their necks with his own bare hands'.

Other times the fetus was so big he would have to pull it out of the womb in pieces, Karpen's ex-assistant, Deborah Edge, said in an Operation Rescue video, which has prompted a criminal investigation into the doctor.

'Sometimes he couldn't get the fetus out... he would yank pieces – piece by piece – when they were oversize,' Edge explained.

'And I'm talking about the whole floor dirty. I'm talking about me drenched in blood.'

Two of Edge's colleagues, Gigi Aguliar, and Krystal Rodriguez, also described the hellish scenes which took place at the Aaron Women's Clinic in Houston in 2011, and possibly two other abortion clinics run by Karpen in Texas.

Another staffer, who remains anonymous, filed an affidavit with her account of events, which the Texas Department of State Health Services is using in its investigation.

'We have several people looking into the allegations,' Harris County District Attorney spokesman Sara Marie Kinney told Chron.com.

Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst said he had read the allegations 'with disgust' before calling for a full investigation into Karpen and his clinics.

Lifenews.com, an anti-abortion news website, has published cell phone photographs taken by the employees of fetuses with gashes in their necks after they were killed at the clinic, though these are far too gruesome for MailOnline to show.

Edge said fetuses were killed well after 24 weeks gestation at the Houston clinic, which resulted in a sweat-inducing job that took about an hour per procedure. She said every morning on multiple occasions she would see fetuses born alive and then quickly killed by the doctor.

'When he did an abortion, especially an over 20 week abortion, most of the time the fetus would come completely out before he either cut the spinal cord or he introduced one of the instruments into the soft spot of the fetus in order to kill it.... or actually twisting the head off the neck with his own bare hands,' she explained.

'It was still alive because it was still moving and you could see the stomach breathing.'

The women described one occasion where a fetus that Karpen thought was dead suddenly 'opened its eyes and grabbed (the doctor's) finger' after he wrenched it from the womb. However, it met a similar fate to the other fetuses at the clinic, the women said.

'He thought it was dead but the fetus actually opened its eyes and grabbed his finger,' Aguliar said. 'He was alive. He thought it was deceased already. He was getting ready to put it in the back.'

Crime scene: The hellish scenes allegedly took place at the Aaron Women's Clinic, pictured, in Houston in 2011, and possibly two other abortion clinics run by Karpen in Texas

They also recounted occasions when women were so far along with their pregnancy they were actually induced into labor and in two cases their fetus' came out while they were in the bathroom.

Rodriguez described another incident where a patient's fetus fell from her and onto the floor in the clinic's waiting room.

'(Karpen) just picked it up with a Chux and put it in the trash bag,' she said.

According to Rodriguez, as long as patients had the cash, Karpen would perform an abortion well past 24 weeks. A late-term procedure cost between $4,000 and $5,000 at the clinic, they said in the video which was filmed as the clinic was still operating and released on Wednesday.

Edge said she regularly got upset during her work and couldn't watch when Karpen allegedly killed the newborns. But she said she didn't know that what he was doing was illegal.

'We used to look at each other and sometimes our tears would come out with the other assistants,' Edge said. 'We would always think "he's so greedy."'

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:31 am 
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WTF is wrong with these people?

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:07 am 
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Safe, legal abortions FTW?

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:47 am 
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I'm not surprised that people are coming forward in the wake of catching one. When people find out that the behavior they are observing is not acceptable and people will listen if they come forward, they will. There can be a lot of pressure brought against anyone who is against abortion and it can be paralyzing for people to come forward. It's the same reason clinics in PA weren't being inspected.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 9:15 am 
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I find that very odd.

The USA has more controversy over abortion than any other developed country, and yet it's also got some of the highest occurrence of late term abortions. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termi ... #Incidence)

Once again, I will state my belief that intentionally killing an unborn child should be outright banned. Instead, induce labor, remove the developing fetus from the womb, and let nature and the medical profession decide if it has a chance to survive.

(Note that these butchers are not even killing unborn children, they are birthing them first, then killing live born babies.)

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 9:21 am 
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Inducing premature labor is crazy dangerous for the mother (and baby duh)

Quote:
For mothers, premature birth is generally extremely stressful, and it can also be dangerous. Mothers may experience heavy bleeding or hemorrhage, and in instances where a Cesarean section is required, the mother is at risk of infections and other complications from surgery. Some studies have also linked premature birth with maternal health problems like cardiovascular disease.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 11:08 am 
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Hopwin wrote:
Inducing premature labor is crazy dangerous for the mother (and baby duh)

Quote:
For mothers, premature birth is generally extremely stressful, and it can also be dangerous. Mothers may experience heavy bleeding or hemorrhage, and in instances where a Cesarean section is required, the mother is at risk of infections and other complications from surgery. Some studies have also linked premature birth with maternal health problems like cardiovascular disease.


Note that these doctors were inducing labor and then killing the fetus after it was born and calling it "abortion." Tell me that's less dangerous somehow?

Anyway, these are late term. The earlier it's done, the safer it is. In any event, I believe a woman has a right to evict the unwanted fetus from her body, but has no right to deliberately take its life. If it is viable for survival, it should get that opportunity.

"Morning After pills" essentially do the same thing before the zygote even implants.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 11:12 am 
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You misunderstand me, I am against your idea and abortions. This is not an either/or.

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