The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 4:17 am

View unanswered posts | View active topics


Board index » The Glade » General

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 2
  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
Aethien
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:07 pm 
Offline
Mountain Man
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:15 pm
Posts: 3374
Apparently, octopi have now been observed to use tools, in the wild.

Makes me want to time-travel a few million years in the future, see if Octopus is the new dominant species on Earth, having slowly developed intelligence and tool-using abilities. That would be so cool (apart from the time-travel aspect).

_________________
This cold and dark tormented hell
Is all I`ll ever know
So when you get to heaven
May the devil be the judge
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Kaffis Mark V
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 9412
It has an evolutionary advantage -- it can use 8 tools at once to our 2!

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Aethien
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:48 pm 
Offline
Mountain Man
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:15 pm
Posts: 3374
Wow, I can see it now - The Human-Octo War.

_________________
This cold and dark tormented hell
Is all I`ll ever know
So when you get to heaven
May the devil be the judge
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Hopwin
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:43 pm 
Offline
The Dancing Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 9354
Location: Ohio
Image
Arm yourselves...

_________________
Quote:
In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Lydiaa
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:06 pm 
Offline
Asian Blonde

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:14 pm
Posts: 2075
and if they were zombified...
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Micheal
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:17 pm 
Offline
Bull Moose
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 7507
Location: Last Western Stop of the Pony Express
Calamari's revenge . . .with garlic butter.

_________________
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Midgen
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:08 am
Posts: 6465
Location: The Lab
I heard about this today. I'm not sure I get the significance. How is this any different than hermit crabs or any other critter that lives in a seashell? Heck and those guys are even portable?
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Aethien
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:46 pm 
Offline
Mountain Man
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:15 pm
Posts: 3374
The hermit crab just stumbles upon a shell - or, maybe, actually looks for one of a suitable size, if you will, once it needs a new one because it's grown. This octopus, meanwhile, was observed to pick up two coconut shells, empty them out, and then carry them to a specific spot where it put them together so as to be able to hide inside more effectively.

Seems to me that the Hermit crab may have it in its genes to search out something that protects its soft body. The octopus, however, has it in its genes to hide inside a coconut or something that had fallen to the sea floor naturally, much like the crab. But this octopus species has now learned that it can take two coconut shells (which have been cracked by humans, and which in themselves would not provide the same level of protection), empty them out to create more room inside, and then put them together to make an ideal hiding spot.

There's a dissertation here waiting to be written on whether or not this is learned behavior. In other words, did one octopus discover it, and then teach others? That would be freakin' huge.

_________________
This cold and dark tormented hell
Is all I`ll ever know
So when you get to heaven
May the devil be the judge
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Kaffis Mark V
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 9412
Midgen wrote:
I heard about this today. I'm not sure I get the significance. How is this any different than hermit crabs or any other critter that lives in a seashell? Heck and those guys are even portable?

If you look at the article, they describe the difference being that the octopi they observed were cleaning the husks out, carrying the coconuts to a different spot, and then assembling the two halves to make a more protective shelter. These behaviors indicate planning that the hermit crab, who just crawls into a shell for immediate (and then on-going) protection does not exhibit. The article acknowledges that there's a lot of debate over how best to describe "tool use" in these fields.

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Raell
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:13 am 
Offline
Solo Hero
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:32 pm
Posts: 3874
Location: Clarkston, Mi
So should we start dropping rust resistant tools in the ocean to see what they can really do...?

_________________
Raell Kromwell
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Micheal
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:49 am 
Offline
Bull Moose
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 7507
Location: Last Western Stop of the Pony Express
Watch out Spongebob.

_________________
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
darksiege
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:52 am 
Offline
Grrr... Eat your oatmeal!!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 5073
ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Micheal
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:12 am 
Offline
Bull Moose
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 7507
Location: Last Western Stop of the Pony Express
That requires a sanity check. You'll need a high roll on 1-100, here is a d20, roll once.

_________________
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
darksiege
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:33 am 
Offline
Grrr... Eat your oatmeal!!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 5073
woohoo! Critical fumble! I rolled a nr'hph'hrm

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Aethien
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:39 am 
Offline
Mountain Man
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:15 pm
Posts: 3374
darksiege wrote:
ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Win!!

They can unscrew jar lids, and squeeze through 1/2" cracks, etc. They're fantastic creatures. Let's kickstart the process and start training them ...

_________________
This cold and dark tormented hell
Is all I`ll ever know
So when you get to heaven
May the devil be the judge
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Colphax
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:19 am 
Offline
Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:46 pm
Posts: 900
Location: In the rain shadow
AAAAAAARRRRRGGGHHHHHHH!


Octupus is a FREAKING GREEK ROOT WORD!

"Octopi" is wrong!!!!!!! It's Octopuses! OCTOPUSES!




ermm....I'm OK now...I think...Ima go get some more Nyquil....

_________________
Women are from Hoboken, men are from Trenton. ~ Jimmy Kimmel
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Gorse
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:54 am 
Offline
of course

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:56 am
Posts: 383
Location: CDC EOC
My wife and I volunteered at the Corpus Christi aquarium back in 96-97 and they had a problem with rare fish that kept disappearing. Fearing it being an "inside" job (meaning they though employees were stealing them) they installed cameras and caught the culpret on tape.

As you probably already guessed by this thread, it was their octopus squeazing through mesh raiding the other tanks and going back to it's tank before the morning shift arrived. I have no doubts about their intelligence.

I also seem to recall a similar story a few years ago where they observed octopi in the wild using sharp sharp rocks as tools to cut open crabs and shellfish.

_________________
Gorse
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
TheRiov
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:47 am 
Offline
Rihannsu Commander

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:31 am
Posts: 4709
Location: Cincinnati OH
I've seen videos of them taking out the tank light on a nightly basis because they prefer the dark. I've also seen them hunting and killing the small sharks in the aquarium next to them.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Monte
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:49 am
Posts: 2410
/cleans up pieces of Colophax's brain.

_________________
Image

It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Colphax
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:55 am 
Offline
Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:46 pm
Posts: 900
Location: In the rain shadow
/twitch











Stupid freaking cold

_________________
Women are from Hoboken, men are from Trenton. ~ Jimmy Kimmel
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Aethien
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:45 am 
Offline
Mountain Man
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:15 pm
Posts: 3374
Colphax wrote:
AAAAAAARRRRRGGGHHHHHHH!


Octupus is a FREAKING GREEK ROOT WORD!

"Octopi" is wrong!!!!!!! It's Octopuses! OCTOPUSES!




ermm....I'm OK now...I think...Ima go get some more Nyquil....


Heh, I looked that up before I started:

[quote="Wikipedia, pronunciations removed"]The term octopus ... is from Greek ὀκτάπους (oktapous), "eight-footed", with plural forms: octopuses, octopi, or octopodes. Currently, octopuses is the most common form in the US as well as the UK; octopodes is rare, and octopi is often objectionable.[/url]

Funny, "octopodes" strikes me as objectionable. :) Ocotopodes? :?

_________________
This cold and dark tormented hell
Is all I`ll ever know
So when you get to heaven
May the devil be the judge
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Talya
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:51 am 
Offline
Oberon's Playground
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:11 am
Posts: 9449
Location: Your Dreams
Cephalopods are among the smartest species on earth. They'd be smarter yet if they lived longer, but they die shortly after mating, the various species having life expectancies ranging from 6 months to 5 years at the maximum.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Aethien
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:57 am 
Offline
Mountain Man
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:15 pm
Posts: 3374
Yeah, I noticed that about life expectancies. That's sad.

_________________
This cold and dark tormented hell
Is all I`ll ever know
So when you get to heaven
May the devil be the judge
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Colphax
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:03 am 
Offline
Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:46 pm
Posts: 900
Location: In the rain shadow
Heh, according to askoxford.com:
Quote:
What are the plurals of 'octopus', 'hippopotamus', 'syllabus'?

English words of Latin or Greek origin have rather unpredictable plurals, and each one usually depends on how well established that particular word is. It may also depend on whether the Latin or Greek form of the plural is either easily recognizable or pleasant to the speaker of English.

Although it is often supposed that octopi is the 'correct' plural of octopus, and it has been in use for longer than the usual Anglicized plural octopuses, it in fact originates as an error. Octopus is not a simple Latin word of the second declension, but a Latinized form of the Greek word oktopous, and its 'correct' plural would logically be octopodes.

Other words ending in -us show a very varied pattern. Like octopi, the plural hippopotami is now generally taken to be either funny or absurdly pedantic, and the usual plural is hippopotamuses. Common usage appears to indicate a slight preference for termini rather than terminuses, but syllabuses rather than syllabi. Other usual forms include cacti and gladioli, and our files at the dictionary department show scarcely any examples of nucleuses or funguses. (Omnibi is simply a joke, and quite ungrammatical in Latin!)

Among words ending in -um it seems worth drawing attention to the word curricula, plural of curriculum, and warning against confusion with the adjective curricular (as in extra-curricular).


So it looks like the choice is between the correct, proper, but weird Greek octopodes, the funny but incorrect Latin plural octopi, or the technically incorrect, but more in line with English Anglicized plural octopuses.

I agree, -podes is wonky. If the choice is between Latin and English bastardizations, I'm gonna go with English.

_________________
Women are from Hoboken, men are from Trenton. ~ Jimmy Kimmel
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Ladas
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 2169
Talya wrote:
They'd be smarter yet if they lived longer, but they die shortly after mating, the various species having life expectancies ranging from 6 months to 5 years at the maximum.

One could argue that the pressure to survive in a hostile environment long enough to get that one shot at passing on your genes is the driving force behind their intelligence.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 2
  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Board index » The Glade » General

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 219 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group