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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:38 pm 
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The King
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the street now. Unreal.

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http://news.sky.com/story/1094380/woolwich-soldier-dead-after-terror-attack

A man reported to be a serving soldier is dead and two people have been shot in Woolwich, south east London, after what Sky sources understand is being treated as a terrorist attack.

Downing Street has called a meeting of the Government's Cobra emergency committee after the incident in John Wilson Street, which David Cameron described as "truly shocking".

Sky sources understand that senior police officers believe the killing was likely to be a politically-motivated Islamist terrorist attack.

Dozens of weapons - including a number of knives - and pools of blood could be seen on the ground, where a man wearing a Help for Heroes T-shirt is said to have been attacked by two men.

Sky sources say that following their attack, witnesses heard the pair chanting "Allahu akbar" - and asking passers-by to take photographs of them.

Armed officers arrived at the scene and opened fire on the two alleged attackers. The men were taken to separate hospitals with gunshot wounds.

The Metropolitan Police confirmed one person had died following the incident and said the Independent Police Complaints Commission had now taken over the investigation.

Photographs taken at the scene show three people lying on the ground. Their condition was not clear. A car that appeared to have crashed could also be seen.

Commander Simon Letchford, from the Met, said officers were called to the road at 2.20pm.

"One man was being assaulted by two other men," he said.

"A number of weapons were reportedly being used in the attack, and this included reports of a firearm.

"Officers including local Greenwich officers arrived at the scene and shortly after firearms officers arrived on the scene.

"On their arrival at the scene they found a man, who was later pronounced dead. At this early stage I am unable to provide any further information about the man who has died.

"Two men, who we believe from early reports to have been carrying weapons, were shot by police. They were taken to separate London hospitals, they are receiving treatment for their injuries."

The Prime Minister is expected to cut short a trip to Paris to return to London in the wake of the incident.

Nigel Foran, who saw the incident as he returned home from shopping, described a scene of a confusion.

He told Sky News: "We saw a man running towards the police officers and then we heard a couple of gunshots.

"He went to the floor and was surrounded while officers drew their stun guns. After that, all the people who were watching ran away when they heard the gunshots."

The Ministry of Defence said it was urgently looking at the reports that the incident involved a soldier.

But Greenwich and Woolwich MP Nick Raynsford told Sky News he believed the deceased was a serving soldier.

He said he had spoken to both borough commander Richard Wood and Lieutenant Colonel Bob Christopher at Royal Artillery Barracks - which is around a mile from the scene of the attack.

"We think a serving soldier was the victim. We don't know the circumstances surrounding the incident."

Schools in the area have been placed on lockdown.

Mayor of London Boris Johnson posted on his Twitter account: "This afternoon's attack in Woolwich is a sickening deluded and unforgivable act of violence."

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 8:30 pm 
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ttack.html and they stoped to give a post butchery interview.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:46 am 
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I can't decide which I find more pathetic. The murder itself or the people videoing the guys instead of actually trying to subdue them or help the soldier.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:52 am 
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Aizle wrote:
I can't decide which I find more pathetic. The murder itself or the people videoing the guys instead of actually trying to subdue them or help the soldier.


There's sheep.
There's wolves.
And there's sheepdogs.

If the wolves are killing the sheepdog in front of you, and you're a sheep, you're not stepping in.


That doesn't justify it. It just means we need more sheepdogs.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:01 am 
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And the bad guys had a gun...good thing they have that law against them.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:04 am 
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DFK! wrote:
Aizle wrote:
I can't decide which I find more pathetic. The murder itself or the people videoing the guys instead of actually trying to subdue them or help the soldier.


There's sheep.
There's wolves.
And there's sheepdogs.

If the wolves are killing the sheepdog in front of you, and you're a sheep, you're not stepping in.


That doesn't justify it. It just means we need more sheepdogs.


The sheep also don't just stand there and say "Wow, man, really sucks for that Collie." They run away.

Britain has had a public policy of mandatory cowardice for decades now. Granted, there are issues of anonymity and "no one else is jumping in so I won't" but a large part of that is a result of the anti-self-defense culture they've created.

There are a lot of potential "sheepdogs" out there that don't make their living that way. This is what happens when public policy muzzles them.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:06 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
There are a lot of potential "sheepdogs" out there that don't make their living that way. This is what happens when public policy muzzles them.


No disagreement here whatsoever.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:33 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
The sheep also don't just stand there and say "Wow, man, really sucks for that Collie." They run away.

ALOL! Just got a few curious glances from other ferry passengers because i burst out laughing when I read that. :D

Quote:
Britain has had a public policy of mandatory cowardice for decades now. Granted, there are issues of anonymity and "no one else is jumping in so I won't" but a large part of that is a result of the anti-self-defense culture they've created.

Indeed, when arguing with my more anti-gun liberal friends, I often use Britain as an example of what happens when you create a "just wait for someone official to do something" culture. It's a frequent point of contention between my girlfriend and me, as I believe people have a moral duty to help whenever possible (including when that involves taking on a substantial amount of risk, though not to the point of an obvious suicide run of course), and she gets angry because she feels that by risking myself to help others, I'd be putting stranger's needs and my need to "play the hero" ahead of her need (and our future children's need) to not lose me.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:07 am 
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RD, my wife used to have the same opinion. After I continually pointed out that she wanted me because I was me and not another sheep and she didn't want a world (or country) without people willing to "do something about it", she relented (she didn't say I was right, mind you, she just saw the reality of the situation).

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:16 am 
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My opinion, they were trying to become martyrs and get their fair share of the virgins before all the pretty ones are taken. Too bad the Brit police let them live and spoiled their sly plan.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:30 pm 
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Intro to this story is relevant.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2013/05/1 ... -sheepdog/

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:23 pm 
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But it's a religion of peace.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:46 pm 
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DFK! wrote:


While the sheep / sheepdog continuum makes sense, I believe the same exists for sheep/wolf and wolf/sheepdog.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
While the sheep / sheepdog continuum makes sense, I believe the same exists for sheep/wolf and wolf/sheepdog.

Yeah, I think the wolf/sheepdog continuum can be particularly blurry. Hell, the metaphor itself flatters the sheepdog and denigrates the sheep he/she guards. It's not hard to see the seeds of "benign" dictatorship in there. One of the commenters at that site pulled a good quote on that point:

Daniel Webster had their number: “There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.”


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:01 pm 
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Its a very loose analogy, and its important to note that it doesnt say sheep cant become sheepdogs.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Its a very loose analogy, and its important to note that it doesnt say sheep cant become sheepdogs.


And a highly unlikely evolutionary path.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Frankly, I'm less annoyed that they didn't try and help than I am of them apparently happily videoing the guy and making him famous.

**** that, he's scum and doesn't need his 15 min of fame. And **** the "news" agencies for having the video up on their websites. (and no I didn't watch it)


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:32 pm 
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You do realize this paradigm is nothing new? It happened in Germany and for thousands of years before that in many other places. I'm not excusing it, just making sure that you understand its not limited to GB or the present Day.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:25 pm 
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Ah yes, the two thousand year old german beheading video. I forgot about that...

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But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:48 am 
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I meant the concept of people (as a group) standing there and doing nothing while butchery happens under their noses. Sorry I was unclear.

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:36 am 
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Rorinthas wrote:
I meant the concept of people (as a group) standing there and doing nothing while butchery happens under their noses. Sorry I was unclear.


Yup, and frankly I don't really expect most folks to decide they are superman and jump in. However, to me there is a huge difference between standing by in shock and whipping out your iPhone to make a video and then record the guy giving his manifesto.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:08 am 
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The guy came up after the attack and made her take out her cellphone to record his manifesto.

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:26 am 
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In the US we have the option of shooting them.

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:20 am 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
In the US we have the option of shooting them.


+1

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:37 am 
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Speaking of Foamy...*tap tap tap* goes the foot.

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